Nucs…

[Do224]

I always thought a nuc was a temporary small ‘hive’ used while the bees are still a small colony….and when they fill it you transfer them to a hive.

But I now see that people build upwards above their nuc in the same way they would with a hive….I.e. adding additional boxes on top. Why is this? Rather than transferring the growing colony into a hive I mean

 

[Erichalfbee]

To give the bees a more natural shaped nest I think.
I have tried it but can’t cope with the slaughter of larvae between boxes whenever they are separated for inspection. Seemingly that’s only me. Others have reported no problem.

 

[pargyle]

I modify my 14 x 12 Paynes Nucs by taking out the side feeder and it makes a very nice 8 frame box .... with dummy boards they give you lots of options... you can go from a three frame starter colony or a small swarm to a hive that is big enough to overwinter but not so big that they can't heat it. It's a convenient size box when apiary space is limited ... lots of reasons why I like them ... but, I've never felt the need for a second brood box on top ... I'd agree, if they need that much space, give them a full box.

 

[Ian123]

I always thought a nuc was a temporary small ‘hive’ used while the bees are still a small colony….and when they fill it you transfer them to a hive.

But I now see that people build upwards above their nuc in the same way they would with a hive….I.e. adding additional boxes on top. Why is this? Rather than transferring the growing colony into a hive I mean

That’s how I use them as you describe I can see having the extensions as an advantage if your short on kit maybe. But as you say when there large enough move them into a full hive.
As to a natural shape nests I seen many natural nests in many differing cavities, shape’s vary wildly as do cavities or indeed none at all.

 

[elainemary]

I use nucs to make combs and brood for my other colonies, with young queens andthey are built up in a 'supporting' role in the summer, from my queen rearing late Spring.

I gradually build up a newly mated queen to a single then double nuc with a queen excluder between and I use the top box to draw comb and I'll feed to accelerate the process. As the season progresses I move brood around, transferring newly built comb either out, or to the bottom box and brood to the top, sited next to foundation so the young wax builders build the comb. This arrangement works very well as heat rises so the top box offers perfect conditions for comb building.

I also harvest brood from these double nucs to top up other colonies either building up, or for taking to the heather. @Michael Palmer has similar ideas, using nucs as 'brood factories' to support his queen rearing. I use them as 'comb' factories and as 'support' colonies. I do this for a few weeks and then take out the queen excluder, allowing the colony to build up stores and winter bees for over wintering. This then gives me 'contingency' young queens for the following spring and if they become surplus I will sell. I don't do it on a big scale, with at most one or two nucs per apiary working in this way.

Works very well for me & my bees

 

[Wilco]

I have a couple of extensions just in case and my wooden nucs are stackable. They can be handy to multiply up a colony size or give more space and I find the poly ones much easier to move around than full hives, so often multiply up then move to an out apiary to transfer.

Wondered about a super extension too but decided against.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I always thought a nuc was a temporary small ‘hive’ used while the bees are still a small colony….and when they fill it you transfer them to a hive.

But I now see that people build upwards above their nuc in the same way they would with a hive….I.e. adding additional boxes on top. Why is this?

Bit of a fad nowadays, and leaves you with an unstable construction if constantly added to.
Putting one extension on is a handy tool to enable the bees to expand a bit more before hiving or, if towards the end of the season the nuc isn't quite ready for transferring to a hive and be ready to overwinter - in that case adding another level allows them to expand upwards (and outwards in the lower box) whilst still having plenty of room above to add stores. I've usually found that come spring, the bees have stayed mainly in the bottom whilst the top has loads of clean new comb.

 

[Ian123]

Got to say with the price increase in poly I think a full seconds hive would even be cheaper today.

 

[drex]

All my nucs are home made and wooden with fixed floors. I run them very much as Elainemary, as support colonies or bringing on young queens. I put a few together in a block to take spare new queens through winter.
Continually bleeding off brood and comb, I can keep them small, but if I want to give them more space I put into a full size box and dummy appropriately

 

[Do224]

I really like the ‘support colony’ and ‘brood/comb factory’ idea, especially as it also means having spare queens.

I’ve got a couple of homemade 6 frame nucs. They’re made of 12mm plywood. @drex do you manage to overwinter colonies in similar boxes?

 

[drex]

Mine are about half inch solid boards. I put them together, touching, so only cover boards on top. Off cuts of celotex on top and ends, with a sheet of plastic over. I usually take 4-6 through winter, with rarely any losses. Most get some fondant early in the year

 

[Swarm]

I always thought a nuc was a temporary small ‘hive’ used while the bees are still a small colony….and when they fill it you transfer them to a hive.

But I now see that people build upwards above their nuc in the same way they would with a hive….I.e. adding additional boxes on top. Why is this? Rather than transferring the growing colony into a hive I mean

The convenience for one

 

[mbc]

I find second boxes on nucs very handy.
As already mentioned they're great for expanding nucs to to fill brood combs for use elsewhere, but I find the best use of them is with a qx for harvesting a quick crop.
I keep native bees and generally an overwintered nuc wont be up to speed to promote to a full hive and fill supers on the osr whereas I've taken two boxes, 12 frames, from a nuc at petal fall, by which time they're good to promote to a full size hive for the rest of the season.
Like Ian above, when they all went out and I looked for more and saw they've gone to over thirty quid each I decided it wasnt such a convenient management option after all.
Scandalous really considering that many items like fridges and washing machines come with complex molded poly as disposable packaging, the manufacturing process is basically the same, we're over a barrel on price due to issues of scale

 

[Do224]

I find second boxes on nucs very handy.
As already mentioned they're great for expanding nucs to to fill brood combs for use elsewhere, but I find the best use of them is with a qx for harvesting a quick crop.

Really interesting. I didn’t realise you could super a nuc and use it like a mini hive. Are they more likely to swarm in this scenario (given how limited the queen is compared to if it was a full size hive)?

 

[Do224]

The convenience for one

In what way? Lighter boxes for lifting?

 

[Mabee]

I have just removed all my supers and brood boxes from my garage to replace them with nuc boxes brought back from apiaries, I had no idea I had so many!

I had two small colonies which I fed last August, they filled the nuc upper boxes with drawn comb and syrup/nectar and over wintered in them, come Spring I had 10 frames ready to go into a full brood box and they were off, those two are my best performing hives.

Whenever I split into nucs, I will give them an additional box to build into until they are ready to be transferred to a full brood box. They are easier to move and for the bees in a small colony to protect. They are quite tree trunk like.

I’ve also used them to change from commercial frames to National by rotating the boxes, I’ve gone 3 high at most, as long as they are strapped down they are quite secure.

 

[mbc]

Really interesting. I didn’t realise you could super a nuc and use it like a mini hive. Are they more likely to swarm in this scenario (given how limited the queen is compared to if it was a full size hive)?

Yes, you're congesting them, I only do this with young queens though.
Fairly small colonies can expand remarkably quickly in poly nuc formats, jobs like drawing foundations are very much easier for small colonies when cosy and insulated, probably ripening honey too

 

[Swarm]

In what way? Lighter boxes for lifting?

Ceri has mentioned some of them, combs, brood, honey.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Watch this to see how I use nucleus colonies to support my apiary. From the brood and bees I harvest from the brood factories I make 1200+ queens and 300+ nucleus colonies.

 

[drex]

Thanks Mike
I have been using your sustainable apiary philosophy and techniques since seeing your first video. Love it. Will watch this video tonight