Not treating varroa

[Fritillary]

Whatever one does the problem is the beekeeper next door who imports bees into the vicinity..... the Varroa bomb!

Perhaps an import ban is the way forward for our tiny island to cope with the infestation and it goes without saying strict controls on movement and compulsory registration for all beekeepers and keepers of bees + a controlled eradication program for feral bees.

I will not hold my breath!

Yeghes da

I didn't hold mine for long.
Controlled eradication program for feral (aka wild) bees?
- Gasped immediately!

 

[B+.]

B+ : What I suggested is an hypothesis and like all such hypotheses needs testing by people with the brains, the time and resources to carry out suitable investigations. Why assume that just the honeybee will adapt? In most predator / prey and parasite/ host relationships both members tend with time to adapt to a point where both can co-exist in the same environment although often in cycles where at any one time one or the other has the upper hand.

I don't. I just don't see it in my colonies. I thought, from what you said, that you had seen varroa adapting

 

[Fusion_power]

Please explain why a bee professor in his lectures calls all of the Apis Mellifera family tropical.

Apis Mellifera was trapped in North Africa during the last ice age. As the ice melted, it spread around the eastern edge of the Mediterranean forming the geographic races east of the Alps. A similar spread up the Iberian peninsula and across into France, Britain, and Germany resulted in the western geographic races. This is why A.M.m. is often compared to the bees of Morocco while Italians and Carniolans are genetically more similar to the Egyptian bees. Ergo, all honeybees can be referred to as tropical.

There was once an extant honeybee in North America but the entire group appears to have gone extinct a few million years ago.

 

[Swarm]

Whatever one does the problem is the beekeeper next door who imports bees into the vicinity..... the Varroa bomb!

Perhaps an import ban is the way forward for our tiny island to cope with the infestation and it goes without saying strict controls on movement and compulsory registration for all beekeepers and keepers of bees + a controlled eradication program for feral bees.

I will not hold my breath!

Yeghes da

I doubt very much that varroa swam here

 

[For want of a better word]

Apis Mellifera was trapped in North Africa during the last ice age. As the ice melted, it spread around the eastern edge of the Mediterranean forming the geographic races east of the Alps. A similar spread up the Iberian peninsula and across into France, Britain, and Germany resulted in the western geographic races. This is why A.M.m. is often compared to the bees of Morocco while Italians and Carniolans are genetically more similar to the Egyptian bees. Ergo, all honeybees can be referred to as tropical.

There was once an extant honeybee in North America but the entire group appears to have gone extinct a few million years ago.

Brilliant BBC documentary with Alice a proff in some kind of ology... used DNA analyses to back up the various new hypotheses of where man first came from.

Seems to be some new ideas based on DNA how honeybee races populated Northern Europe which differ somewhat to the "accepted" view as well.

Modern Man moved out of Africa in several swathes..... last remains of Neanderthals found in cave in Gibralta.

Interesting findings how the New world was first populated with mankind.

Ergo we are all African


I did see a report about a new branch of Amm in China....

 

[oliver90owner]

I read that link and I suggest that it could be a case of the mite adapting. It is not in the interest of most parasites to kill their host. It may be that natural selection is operating to select a mite that produces less young enabling it to coexist with the colony rather than wiping it out.

How appropriate. Clearly nothing new! Read my post about six or seven pages back.

I didn’t suggest, however, B+ had no brains!

 

[Beefriendly]

And as I explained several posts back, Varroa and Amm is not a normal host parasite relationship. An important aspect that both of you have overlooked.

 

[Finman]

And as I explained several posts back, Varroa and Amm is not a normal host parasite relationship. An important aspect that both of you have overlooked.

Do not take hope from them. Varroa has been mellifera parasite 100 years. Let wait another 100 years.
.

 

[foghornleghorn]

How appropriate. Clearly nothing new! Read my post about six or seven pages back.

I didn’t suggest, however, B+ had no brains!

Your suggestion can't work.


Dwv replicates in varroa, strains that affect varroa negatively have to exist given the sheer amount of potential mutations that would have occurred over the years

 

[fatshark]

Quite correct...but we already know Apis cerano and varroa do not kill each other. The mutual host/parasite relationship there has evolved over many 1000's of years
The problem is when varroa recently jumped host to from cerano to mellifera.
New ball game and only 50/60 years or so down the evolutionary ladder.

Interestingly 50-60 years is all it took for myxoma virus to become attenuated and rabbits to become more resistant when myxomatosis was introduced to Australia.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23055928

On introduction it was 99.99% lethal ... within 50 years this was reduced to less than 50%.

As a consequence of this reduced lethality rabbit haemorrhagic disease virus was 'accidentally' introduced to control the rabbit population ...

Perhaps Varroa/DWV isn't virulent enough?

 

[For want of a better word]

Your suggestion can't work.


Dwv replicates in varroa, strains that affect varroa negatively have to exist given the sheer amount of potential mutations that would have occurred over the years

The problem is that the variant of virus that affect Varroa negatively would have to persist in the varroa population. Since it would have killed the affected varroa it soon would die out,

Epidemiology at work.... however if enough research time was thrown at it I daresay that it would be a novel way to control varroa.

 

[Finman]

Perhaps Varroa/DWV isn't virulent enough?

Varroa kills quite well old hives. About 100%.

Swarming is main strategy to get ridd of varroa. Africanized honeybee leaves its hive with mites and brood and starts with lower miteload.


That hoast parasite relationship has been prayed so long as varroa has been in bee hives, but propably idea does not work anywhere.

 

[domino]

Interestingly 50-60 years is all it took for myxoma virus to become attenuated and rabbits to become more resistant when myxomatosis was introduced to Australia.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23055928

On introduction it was 99.99% lethal ... within 50 years this was reduced to less than 50%.

As a consequence of this reduced lethality rabbit haemorrhagic disease virus was 'accidentally' introduced to control the rabbit population ...

Perhaps Varroa/DWV isn't virulent enough?

I assume it was the unmanaged population of rabbits (not sure if rabbits are farmed there) so came under heavy selective pressures?

As opposed to beekeepers managing their populations.

I don't know, I just monitor mites and treat and pay little attention to what others do - just a question.

 

[Beefriendly]

Interestingly 50-60 years is all it took for myxoma virus to become attenuated and rabbits to become more resistant when myxomatosis was introduced to Australia.

A quite different situation to bees that are managed and "fresh" hives with low levels of varroa are always available, taking away any evolutionary pressure to attenuate.
If there was no control of varroa by beekeepers then perhaps this would happen....but in the cases studied to date it's mainly been the bees that have changed their "lifestyle" to cope with varroa.

 

[foghornleghorn]

The problem is that the variant of virus that affect Varroa negatively would have to persist in the varroa population. Since it would have killed the affected varroa it soon would die out,

Epidemiology at work.... however if enough research time was thrown at it I daresay that it would be a novel way to control varroa.

It could persist in the bees.

Could make the varroa less fertile or maybe just shorten lifespan who knows, but it's the best explanation for how some have managed to go treatment free and end up with bees that survive despite not truly being varroa resistant

 

[Finman]

It could persist in the bees.

Could make the varroa less fertile or maybe just shorten lifespan who knows, but it's the best explanation for how some have managed to go treatment free and end up with bees that survive despite not truly being varroa resistant

All domestic animals are such that we keep parasites away from them.

Why honeybee should stand its worst parasite?

 

[Fusion_power]

Why honeybee should stand its worst parasite?

They should "stand" because the honeybee genome is broad enough and has enough diversity to provide the genes that permit such resistance. Your concept is that no resistance exists. My observation is that bees with resistance definitely exist and it is not based on swarming away from the infestation and it does not rely on brood breaks in mid-summer. The observation is that resistant colonies have dramatically fewer varroa mites than susceptible colonies. This does not mean that a resistant colony can withstand the influx of mites from a varroa bomb.

Do some due diligence Finman, you are a sharp beekeeper. Figure out if varroa resistance is perhaps viable in your climate.

For comparison, I shipped a few queens to California a couple of years ago. The colonies succumbed to varroa. I suspect the reason is because they were surrounded by hundreds of susceptible colonies that provided very high levels of mites drifting into the colonies.

I am too dumb to know it can't be done so I bred varroa resistant honeybees anyway.

 

[Beefriendly]

I am too dumb to know it can't be done so I bred varroa resistant honeybees anyway.

Resistant or tolerant?
Makes a big difference.
The French Avignon feral bees survived with varroa without treatment. Small colonies, frequent swarming.
The difference when they treated half of the group, was the treated ones produced 3x as much honey.....
Perhaps worth treating a few of yours to see if this applies.

 

[Finman]

. The observation is that resistant colonies have dramatically fewer varroa mites than susceptible colonies. This does not mean that a resistant colony can withstand the influx of mites from a varroa bomb.

Do some due diligence Finman, you are a sharp beekeeper. Figure out if varroa resistance is perhaps viable in your climate.
.

Like your colonies, their winter clusters are too small to survive over winter or build up a productive hive.

Russian bees' colony has 3-4 frame winter cluster. Impossible to keep such bees in our climate.

 

[Ian123]

I am too dumb to know it can't be done so I bred varroa resistant honeybees anyway.

I dont suppose the arrival of AHB helped a little!!!