Not enough bees in the hives and not sure whether queen is in the hives

[john1]

Hi,
In two of my hives and I feel like there is not enough bees in both of them.

The first hive may have around 4 frames of bees and the second will have around 5 frames of bees. I believe I have to feed some bee candy by the end of December.
I could not find queen in both of them in my quick inspection.

I can see 3 frames full of honey in the first one and 4 frames full of honey in the second one.

Could you please tell me what I should do in this situation -

1. Should I merge both hives into one hive? If so, what is the best way?

2. I have a third hive which is very healthy - I can see the hive is full of bees, eggs, larvae and capped cells. Should I get a brood frame with eggs and larvae and put it in the hives with less bees? Will they make a new queen (if the queen is not in the hive)?

Thanks,

 

[PeaBee]

Hi John,
A few alarm bells ringing reading you question.
Firstly now is not the time of year to be looking for queens and doing inspections, you will do more harm than good.
Did you feed anything in autumn, although it sounds like there are some stores in both colonies I think an autumn feed can keep a queen laying a bit longer and can give a boost the numbers going into winter.
4-5 frames of bees at this stage is on the small side but not that unusual.
To answer you questions.
1. Should I merge both hives into one hive? If so, what is the best way? You could but again halfway through November I feel is a bit late, it has been a mild autumn so that could work in your favour, but I would be tempted to leave them and see what happens in spring

2. I have a third hive which is very healthy - I can see the hive is full of bees, eggs, larvae and capped cells. Should I get a brood frame with eggs and larvae and put it in the hives with less bees? Will they make a new queen (if the queen is not in the hive)? No and No. Taking frames from a healthy hive has the potential to harm that there is no way they could make a successful queen now. At best you will be giving a colony that you have doubts about a few extra bees, at worst the brood will chill and you may harm your good colony.

 

[WoodenBeam]

I wouldn’t be going into any hives at this time of the year personally - best left to their own devices to settle & sort themselves out for the Winter. Would strongly advise against taking brood / eggs from your ‘strong’ colony - at least if the other two fail you will have something remaining in the Spring
Choice is yours to merge or not the other two colonies, it’s sort of a or bust scenario. Leave as are & see what happens or plonk the two together and let ‘em get on with it. The key thing in my mind is to ensure the 3rd comes through ok.
You say you believe you have to feed candy, only if they need it, key thing is to let alone. Try & find a ‘bee buddy’ at a local club or on here, seeing other hives and hefting to get a feel will tell you if they need candy.
Posted at same time as Peabee - but advise is similar.

 

[john1]

Thank yo so much,

If there is no queen in both, is it safe to leave them in the winter without queen?

Should I introduce a queen next year (probably April, May)?
Thanks

 

[WoodenBeam]

Thank yo so much,

If there is no queen in both, is it safe to leave them in the winter without queen?

Should I introduce a queen next year (probably April, May)?
Thanks

You don’t know if there’s a queen or not, if not they’ll gradually die off to nothing (or quickly die off in a cold snap) giving you some spare kit going forward - just be mindful of possible disease issues.
If there are queens and the gods are smiling then hopefully they’ll pull through.
Other than hefting there’s not a lot to do. I use glass quilts with some mesh across the Porter Escape hole allowing examination of the colony without disturbing, use of a torch for when the bees are down in the hive.
Keep an eye on and cross ya fingers - if they do die off then pull the equipment out of your apiary & clean it all up ready for use in the Spring.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The two weaker hives I would dummy down to nuc size with insulation and leave them alone. Maybe add some fondant after Christmas

 

[enrico]

Be aware that some hives do dwindle to very few frames of bees. As I have said before I have one that always goes to three or four frames but is one of my best producers. You are giving them so much work to do by opening them up. They have to fill all the gaps, repair any damage, get the heat of the hive back up. I think you have the message that they are best left alone at this time of the year!
Let us know in spring what has happened, OH! and by spring I mean when it is warm enough to wear a T shirt!!

 

[Kaz]

I just had a flashback to my first year of beekeeping and phoning my mentor close to tears "all my bees have gone" sob sob. I hadn't realised that a full colony of bees reduces down to maybe 4 frames when they cluster. I was also reprimanded (not politely - "wtf are you doing opening them up at this time of year?"). A lesson learnt

 

[ericbeaumont]

could not find queen in both of them in my quick inspection

Did you see brood or eggs, John?

If a quick check must be done, don't bother to look for the queen: she could be anywhere, and you haven't the time to look everywhere.

 

[Ian123]

I’d be inclined to dummy down as suggested by Dani, a quick peak at the frames will tell you if there’s any sealed brood and the likelihood of a queen. Knowing over the winter will at least save any faff or feeding, you’ll do no harm in the current conditions and increase the chances of them surviving

 

[john1]

Did you see brood or eggs, John?

If a quick check must be done, don't bother to look for the queen: she could be anywhere, and you haven't the time to look everywhere.

I could not see any eggs in those 2 hives.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I could not see any eggs in those 2 hives.

Nor brood?

 

[john1]

Nor brood?

I could find capped cells in one of the frames in one of the hives, but no eggs.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

so there's probably a queen in there - but what could you do if there wasn't
I've said it before, I'll say it again - there comes a stage in the year when it's time to stop fiddling and leave the bees to their own devices. That time has long passed.