Newbie from east Kent

[Julie in Ash]

Hello

After many years of 'study', I am finally taking the plunge and preparing to get my first hive in the Spring. I say 'study' lightly, because it wasn't a serious academic drive - all I have done is read and viewed anything I can across on the subject of Bees and the issues around keeping them for many years now. They fascinate me and I've always wanted my own Bees. I had always assumed that because I am forbidden by my landlord to keep Bees in my garden then I couldn't be a Beekeeper, however since attending a recent 'Open Farm' day locally and speaking with someone from a Bee association, I have realised that living in semi-rural Kent should not stop me from having hives elsewhere and local farmers might actually want me to keep Bees on their land.

I contacted my local Bee association and found them very friendly and supportive and keen to help and educate new Beekeepers. Sadly, I missed this year's beginners course but I have started attended the weekly inspections which beginners are encouraged to attend at the association's own Apiary, where I've been learning heaps more and gaining some handling experience. They have about 8 hives there.

I am going along the Top Bar hive route, which I know some people would disagree with but for me I think it's the most practical as a physical issue with arthritis means I would struggle lifting whole boxes. Luckily for me, my better half is very good with building stuff like that and we have more or less settled on final designs. We are making the bars the same length as a National frame so there may be some limited crossover should I need it in future.

So it's all going well so far and I'm spending the rest of this year getting prepared. I am gathering other tools and equipment ready for the spring. I even have a lead or two with venues, and a local small scale commercial nursery is keen to meet me next week to talk about whether we can help each other.

So that is me... it's nice to find a forum like this. I promise not be cause trouble. lol!

 

[Tony19]

Welcome and I'm sure that like all of us you'll enjoy this frustrating but extreemly satisfying hobby. I'm also new this year and keep making mistakes but hopefully learning from them as I go along. The best teaching aid is your local Apiary, I've found their advice invaluable.
Good Luck!

 

[itsbruce]

Hello

I am going along the Top Bar hive route, which I know some people would disagree

Some people will disagree with anything. Diversity in beekeeping methods is as valuable as genetic diversity in the bees themselves.

Welcome to the club.

 

[Beefriendly]

I am going along the Top Bar hive route, which I know some people would disagree with but for me I think it's the most practical as a physical issue with arthritis means I would struggle lifting whole boxes.

Welcome aboard the madhouse. I'm not a fan of top bars myself due to difficulties of inspecting and the fragility of the comb hanging from one bar rather than supported by 4 sides in a frame...but they work. Perhaps those that use them could comment further on this.
Have you though of an alternative of simply using all supers? A smaller equivalent of the ROSE hive and also lighter than using all Dadant shallows. In all these the boxes and frames are the same size. Probably light enough for you deal with. Reason I suggest this is this season has been very unusual with brood frames clogged with honey...now if all the frames inside a hive where the same size you could simply move the full frames upwards and replace with new/empty.
Just a thought.

 

[Julie in Ash]

Thanks for the welcome.

Yes I had a feeling top bars would raise a frown or two. When I mentioned this method down the association's Apiary, one of the Mentors said "Ooh... I think we had one of them here once.." and then very quickly changed the subject.

I am still researching, of course, which is one reason I'm here now and wanting to pick brains and ideas and not diving in this year and buying kit I would struggle to use. I did decide, though, if we are going to plough on and build top bars I need to try to make them at least part compatible with National sizes as I can in case I want to swap over to full frames at a later date.

Someone did PM a different idea though that deserves further thought. It's all a learning curve. lol

 

[Beefriendly]

Thanks for the welcome.

Yes I had a feeling top bars would raise a frown or two.l

No frowns, it's your hobby you keep whatever type of bee strain you like in whatever hive type you like. My thoughts were simply that you are starting at advanced level. Nowt wrong with that either.
My advice whatever you do is keep at least 2 hives. It will get you out more pickles than anything else.

 

[applejack33]

Top bar

I knew someone who built a long one level hive similar to top bar but not wedge shape. It accommodated British standard frames, not sure if they were shallow or deep but at least could be lifted one at a time.
Never did find out how it worked!
A....33

 

[Ian123]

google up dartingtons........yegads never thought i would be recommending 1 of those

 

[JWF]

Hi Julie, welcome to the forum and the world of beekeeping

I'm just up the Thanet Way from you, in Herne Bay. I work in Sandwich so not far away from you Monday to Friday.

 

[Julie in Ash]

google up dartingtons........yegads never thought i would be recommending 1 of those

That's the idea someone PMd me and I'm certainly interested to learn more. I especially like the idea of separate but manageable honey supers. Can't seem to find any proper plans online for it yet though. I found the Robin Dartington book linked at Thornes but no dimensions or measurements are listed, which will get me in trouble with OH as he never does anything without rulers and compasses and wotnots. He will want extra medals if he has to draw up blueprints himself.

 

[Julie in Ash]

Hi Julie, welcome to the forum and the world of beekeeping

I'm just up the Thanet Way from you, in Herne Bay. I work in Sandwich so not far away from you Monday to Friday.

Hello! Yes not very far away at all. We may even have bumped into each other, or certainly will do I expect. I'm going to the Dover group.

 

[Vortex]

The Dartington dimensions should be on Dave Cushmans site (but the Bee haus - same makers as egglu - is a Dartington). There is no reason you can't put a super on a top bar .. search u-tube .. there are a few Americans doing this.

 

[Julie in Ash]

Well, having talked to OH about Dartingtons he's quite excited about the prospect of building one. He is investigation plans. So thanks, folks, there's a second serious contender for my first hive and I wouldn't have considered it but for the suggestion you've given.

All I need now is somewhere to keep it. Might take out an ad for a venue in the village magazine if the meeting with the nursery manager isn't fruitful.

 

[Ian123]

Hi julie a couple of notes on the dartington. Once you’ve found a spot for it don’t rush to move it they are how shall I put it substantial!!! Also they tend to be known as swarm machines for good reason. With the need to push the brood nest horizontally it’s easily congested with any amount of flow on. The smaller super boxes are indeed easy to lift but bees don’t like the smaller compartments so are less inclined to rush in imo. The plus side is that legs can be adjusted to the perfect height for minimal lifting if that’s what you require. If your oh is handy and wants a project then have a crack at making 1 the initial purchase price of the dartingtons and beehaus are steep. Having said all that if you can adapt your management to fit the style of hive then you can minimise issues. These hives are not for me and I prefer the standard set up but if it gets you keeping bees have a go

 

[pargyle]

Hi julie a couple of notes on the dartington. Once you’ve found a spot for it don’t rush to move it they are how shall I put it substantial!!! Also they tend to be known as swarm machines for good reason. With the need to push the brood nest horizontally it’s easily congested with any amount of flow on. The smaller super boxes are indeed easy to lift but bees don’t like the smaller compartments so are less inclined to rush in imo. The plus side is that legs can be adjusted to the perfect height for minimal lifting if that’s what you require. If your oh is handy and wants a project then have a crack at making 1 the initial purchase price of the dartingtons and beehaus are steep. Having said all that if you can adapt your management to fit the style of hive then you can minimise issues. These hives are not for me and I prefer the standard set up but if it gets you keeping bees have a go

Sorry Ian, This is not right, Long deep hives are not prone to swarming, if anything they are less prone to swarm. With up to 25 14x12 frames or more horizontally arranged it's very easy to manage the space they need with vertical division boards. They do produce big colonies and I use mine as a donor hive - again, very easy to nick a frame of brood to give to another conventional hive.

You are correct - they are heavy and awkward to move without two people but there's an advantage in that you can easily put a padlock on the roof and it's not the sort of hive that thieves are going to easily steal - quite a benefit if you have it in an out apiary.

I've never bothered with supers on my LDH - they are not honey machines - without supers they tend to store honey in the outer frames and it's easy to lift a frame of honey out and do crush and strain - ideal for a new beekeeper with any physical impairment - I would not bother with the supers - there's enough room in the actual box if you manage it correctly.

They are expensive to buy but it's an easy box to makee even without Roger Dartington's plans. Take a frame, add the bee space, decide how many frames you want in the box and you have your dimensions. I added double skin walls and insulation between them an its a hive that the bees like a lot.

The real benefit though is that you don't have to lift any boxes to inspect them .. clear crownboards make them even better ... splitting a colony is a doddle - just shove a divider in the middle, open a second entrance and you have a second colony.

Not much to dislike about them really - unless you want to maximise a honey crop or move your hives about.

Most people on here will have seen this before but you may not have:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/99514363@N06/sets/72157634865981506

 

[Ian123]

Hi look I have no axe to grind as I said above Julie can keep bees in whatever works for her I have no issues....I simply said what I found and in my experience , I did say also draw backs can be managed by tayloring your management style. I also believe I did cover most of the plus points you mention in your post. I have a few years experience running several of the popular long deep versions plus log hives and my own long hive used for qrearing that I made back when I was 15. I have also travelled a fair bit and been fortunate to operate a number of long hives in other countries inc those with Africanised bees so yes I hope my comments have some value and I was honest about the plus and negative points. Are they for me no thanks but I certainly hope it makes keeping bees possible in her situation. The last person I helped inspect a long hive was in a wheel chair so I am more than aware of this aspect. Thks ian

 

[oliver90owner]

When I made my Dartingtons, I arranged the leg articulation such that they could be carried like a stretcher, after taking out one bolt from each leg, for moving by two people.

They are a superb hive and can be overwintered with the cluster near the centre of the hive, so can be insulated internally on both sides of the frames (leaving a tunnel for the bees to reach the entrance). Artificial swarming is so easy, as is encouraging supercedure cells for queen changing or increase. Apart from the size, there are no real downsides to operating them - but I never used those silly half-supers after the first season of use. The omlette bee-container was rubbish, IMO. I still have one but it has never been occupied for long - the timber ones are far better.

 

[Julie in Ash]

It's nice to know the world of Beekeeping is exactly the same as any other caper I've ever got myself into along the years.... full of 'characters' and ripping yarns of daring do and triumph and catastrophe in equal measure. I wouldn't have it any other way.

If my spine and leg joints weren't shot I'd be going for a National Hive set up, because most of the people in the bee association use them and they would willingly swap kit in a crisis and do if another member needs a frame of brood to save a colony.

Omlet I will be giving a pass to. Nice people I am sure but plastic is not for me.

OH has sent for a set of plans to the official Dartington model to see if it cuts the mustard. If he does go ahead and make me one, I do not promise not to paint it girlie colours. So be warned!

 

[Ian123]

Hi Julie and good luck am sure we will be hearing from you in the future. Ian

 

[JWF]

It's nice to know the world of Beekeeping is exactly the same as any other caper I've ever got myself into along the years.... full of 'characters' and ripping yarns of daring do and triumph and catastrophe in equal measure. I wouldn't have it any other way.

If my spine and leg joints weren't shot I'd be going for a National Hive set up, because most of the people in the bee association use them and they would willingly swap kit in a crisis and do if another member needs a frame of brood to save a colony.

Omlet I will be giving a pass to. Nice people I am sure but plastic is not for me.

OH has sent for a set of plans to the official Dartington model to see if it cuts the mustard. If he does go ahead and make me one, I do not promise not to paint it girlie colours. So be warned!

Nowt wrong with girly colours!