New renegade beekeeper Stirlingshire

[Mabee]

Respectfully disagree.

I’d love to go into my own reasons but I don’t have a death wish

it’s a discussion or debate or however you want to call it. We each have our opinions on the subject but i’m interested to know yours and anyone else’s who believes this is a good way to keep bees. You obviously have beliefs about skep beekeeping and if you stand by those reasons then why not share them, so far you have only given abstract answers. We may disagree but by not sharing them, nothing or nobody is going to challenge my thoughts on the subject or anyone elses for that matter!

 

[pargyle]

[QUOTE="emmac79, post: 820768, member: 21131"

I’d love to go into my own reasons but I don’t have a death wish
[/QUOTE]
Feel free to bring your ideas to the fore ... there is an ethos on here that requires the ball to be kicked not the player so the mods will protect you against personal comments or attacks.

I'm curious (as it appears are others) about what the possible appeal, to a new beekeeper, there is in trying to keep bees in a skep ....

I understand the (albeit misguided) philosophy of saving the honey bee. I understand (and practice to some extent) the principles of keeping honey bees in as near a natural state as is feasible.

So ... come on, be brave, share your reasons and your passion or it may be considered that you are just here to create 17 pages of conflict, rather than your OP which said, as I recall, here to learn ?

 

[emmac79]

WOW, are you serious? Am I here to create 17 pages of conflict... really? I'm flabbergasted at that. I don't think that's what I've done at all. If anything I'd say that you asking me to try and explain my reasoning is an invitation for yet more conflict?

And there are comments that were on this thread that were deleted. Removed before you got to read them presumably. So you're actually wrong about that. My experience from the get-go on this forum is that personal comments and attacks are a matter of course from certain members (who remain on this thread). I have conversed with people privately through messages about skeps and other topics. Publicly? On this forum? Not a chance.

I don't have to debate or explain my reasons. There are people that are far more knowledgeable than me (obviously) like Chris Park and that's why I suggested the OP go to him for more information. Here's his website: Welcome to Acorn Education he also has a podcast called Living Beeing.

I'm still formulating all my opinions based on what I'm learning from groups and books. I'm not going to even attempt to 'convince' a bunch of beekeepers here because the majority of them have already made up their minds about their own ways. So what would be the point? It would literally just create more conflict - something I want to avoid.

So yeah, I'm good thanks.

 

[pargyle]

WOW, are you serious? Am I here to create 17 pages of conflict... really? I'm flabbergasted at that. I don't think that's what I've done at all. If anything I'd say that you asking me to try and explain my reasoning is an invitation for yet more conflict?

And there are comments that were on this thread that were deleted. Removed before you got to read them presumably. So you're actually wrong about that. My experience from the get-go on this forum is that personal comments and attacks are a matter of course from certain members (who remain on this thread). I have conversed with people privately through messages about skeps and other topics. Publicly? On this forum? Not a chance.

I don't have to debate or explain my reasons. There are people that are far more knowledgeable than me (obviously) like Chris Park and that's why I suggested the OP go to him for more information. Here's his website: Welcome to Acorn Education he also has a podcast called Living Beeing.

I'm still formulating all my opinions based on what I'm learning from groups and books. I'm not going to even attempt to 'convince' a bunch of beekeepers here because the majority of them have already made up their minds about their own ways. So what would be the point? It would literally just create more conflict - something I want to avoid.

So yeah, I'm good thanks.

Nobody is asking you to try to convince anyone ...

I practice. openly, what I believe and I expect some people to disagree - indeed, I'm pleasantly surprised when someone agrees with me ! I'm not a publicist for what I do in beekeeping terms but I'm open and honest when asked or I feel it is relevant to bring my ways forward for wider discussion.

Where is the point in joining a forum if you feel unable to voice your ideas for fear they may cause conflict ... there's always conflict on here and in beekeeping in general - there's nothing wrong with that - healthy debate is often how we learn.

So I'll press you again before I get on with decorating the hall, stairs and landing .... DO Share ...

 

[Anduril]

The only issue I see there is the modem hive wasn’t invented for those 2000 years. Had they thought of it sooner and been able to produce it easily enough, surely they would have seen the benefits to both beekeeper and bees?

Post 116 hives with removable comb.

 

[Anduril]

Another use of a skep hive was as a weapon of war.

 

[Mabee]

WOW, are you serious? Am I here to create 17 pages of conflict... really? I'm flabbergasted at that. I don't think that's what I've done at all. If anything I'd say that you asking me to try and explain my reasoning is an invitation for yet more conflict?

And there are comments that were on this thread that were deleted. Removed before you got to read them presumably. So you're actually wrong about that. My experience from the get-go on this forum is that personal comments and attacks are a matter of course from certain members (who remain on this thread). I have conversed with people privately through messages about skeps and other topics. Publicly? On this forum? Not a chance.

I don't have to debate or explain my reasons. There are people that are far more knowledgeable than me (obviously) like Chris Park and that's why I suggested the OP go to him for more information. Here's his website: Welcome to Acorn Education he also has a podcast called Living Beeing.

I'm still formulating all my opinions based on what I'm learning from groups and books. I'm not going to even attempt to 'convince' a bunch of beekeepers here because the majority of them have already made up their minds about their own ways. So what would be the point? It would literally just create more conflict - something I want to avoid.

So yeah, I'm good thanks.

I’m not that experienced a beekeeper, but a fairly confident one. I’m only a few years in and also keep different types of hive, one quite unusual for the UK so i’m open minded about different approaches. I also like to ensure the environments I keep my bees are healthy and benefit the colony. I find keeping bees in hives with easy to remove frames to their benefit as I can work with them without causing much damage to them. As I have made a conscious decision to keep bees, I believe it is the responsible way to keep them, I can check for disease and make necessary manipulations should they become an issue to the general public.

I read about bees and beekeeping whenever I get the chance to further my knowledge and I ask on here if I have any issues. Most people on here I find are open and happy to help with their knowledgeable experience which is greater than my own.

It was a simple question and not only directed at you about why people continue to use or consider using skeps. I have read about skeps but interested in peoples opinions or actual experience. I cannot see any benefit to the bees therefore I was hoping you or a fellow skep keeper would explain how and why they use them.

if it’s for aesthetics then the wbc is a better option imo and if it’s for keeping bees naturally then I don’t think you should keep them at all, let them find a hole in a tree and get on with it!

 

[Mabee]

Post 116 hives with removable comb.

Very interesting, thank you, i’ll definitely have a read.

 

[user 20297]

WOW, are you serious? Am I here to create 17 pages of conflict... really? I'm flabbergasted at that. I don't think that's what I've done at all. If anything I'd say that you asking me to try and explain my reasoning is an invitation for yet more conflict?

And there are comments that were on this thread that were deleted. Removed before you got to read them presumably. So you're actually wrong about that. My experience from the get-go on this forum is that personal comments and attacks are a matter of course from certain members (who remain on this thread). I have conversed with people privately through messages about skeps and other topics. Publicly? On this forum? Not a chance.

I don't have to debate or explain my reasons. There are people that are far more knowledgeable than me (obviously) like Chris Park and that's why I suggested the OP go to him for more information. Here's his website: Welcome to Acorn Education he also has a podcast called Living Beeing.

I'm still formulating all my opinions based on what I'm learning from groups and books. I'm not going to even attempt to 'convince' a bunch of beekeepers here because the majority of them have already made up their minds about their own ways. So what would be the point? It would literally just create more conflict - something I want to avoid.

So yeah, I'm good thanks.

A spot-on response!
Why is it necessary for anyone to explain why they are interested in any aspect of beekeeping, when the fact that they are interested is the explanation itself?
If it looked likely that a questioner was open-minded, genuinely exploring the subject and had contributed some positive facts of interest themselves, then it's likely that a natural discourse would occur. But this is a reminiscent of a recent bad-tempered piece of passive-aggressive questioning which was eloquently endured by another beekeeper here, who has a perfectly acceptable, "unacceptably" non-standard approach.

 

[emmac79]

Where is the point in joining a forum if you feel unable to voice your ideas for fear they may cause conflict ...


there's always conflict on here and in beekeeping in general -


there's nothing wrong with that - healthy debate is often how we learn.

Well, quite! Therein lies the predicament.

So I have noticed and yet...you claimed I was the one creating conflict

I doubt you will learn anything about beekeeping from me, pargyle. But hey, never say never!

 

[Mabee]

A spot-on response!
Why is it necessary for anyone to explain why they are interested in any aspect of beekeeping, when the fact that they are interested is the explanation itself?
If it looked likely that a questioner was open-minded, genuinely exploring the subject and had contributed some positive facts of interest themselves, then it's likely that a natural discourse would occur. But this is a reminiscent of a recent bad-tempered piece of passive-aggressive questioning which was eloquently endured by another beekeeper here, who has a perfectly acceptable, "unacceptably" non-standard approach.

Are we not to question things and become more knowledgeable?
I am trying to explore the subject and have contributed many of my own thoughts on beekeeping and expressed an interest to learn about why people would choose to keep bees in a skep because I am genuinely not sure why that would be, but have had little back by way of explanation to create any kind of discourse. The OP started this thread saying “I want to keep bees in skeps, here to learn “, well let’s have a discussion about skeps then and their pros and cons

 

[user 20297]

Are we not to question things and become more knowledgeable?
I am trying to explore the subject and have contributed many of my own thoughts on beekeeping and expressed an interest to learn about why people would choose to keep bees in a skep because I am genuinely not sure why that would be, but have had little back by way of explanation to create any kind of discourse. The OP started this thread saying “I want to keep bees in skeps, here to learn “, well let’s have a discussion about skeps then and their pros and cons

We've had some of the "cons", which even the slightly experienced beekeeper (eg. me) doesn't find it difficult to work out. As a novice, I'm sure that @emmac79 has been given some food for thought in this thread. She's done the right thing and enrolled on a course alongside an expert in skep beekeeping, which is an admission that she has things to learn; so why ask for the answers from her at this stage.

It's experienced skep beekeepers who can explain the detail. There aren't likely to be many of them on this forum out of what must be a very small group. overall. In fact, it's unlikely that they will see this as an inviting place where they can extol its pleasures and benefits, despite @pargyle 's protestation that, " the mods will protect you against personal comments or attacks! whilst simultaneously blaming someone for creating "pages of conflict".

 

[Mabee]

We've had some of the "cons", which even the slightly experienced beekeeper (eg. me) doesn't find it difficult to work out. As a novice, I'm sure that @emmac79 has been given some food for thought in this thread. She's done the right thing and enrolled on a course alongside an expert in skep beekeeping, which is an admission that she has things to learn; so why ask for the answers from her at this stage.

It's experienced skep beekeepers who can explain the detail. There aren't likely to be many of them on this forum out of what must be a very small group. overall. In fact, it's unlikely that they will see this as an inviting place where they can extol its pleasures and benefits, despite @pargyle 's protestation that, " the mods will protect you against personal comments or attacks! whilst simultaneously blaming someone for creating "pages of conflict".

Fair enough point about the OP not having the answers as a new beekeeper.

I have just read a paper written by Chris Park in Dave Cushman’s website which goes in to more depth on skep beekeeping. He still suggests keeping some regular hives alongside as a disease control measure and highlights quite honestly about the difficulties of keeping bees in a skep, I read nothing which brought me to his conclusion that it benefited the bees.

Yes, they swarm often creating a brood break to help with varroa control and the constant renewal of frames may be more natural for the bees but that can also be achieved with a wooden box.

He also only recommends this for rural sites.

His skeps ‘look’ really nice though.

 

[pargyle]

A spot-on response!
Why is it necessary for anyone to explain why they are interested in any aspect of beekeeping, when the fact that they are interested is the explanation itself?
If it looked likely that a questioner was open-minded, genuinely exploring the subject and had contributed some positive facts of interest themselves, then it's likely that a natural discourse would occur. But this is a reminiscent of a recent bad-tempered piece of passive-aggressive questioning which was eloquently endured by another beekeeper here, who has a perfectly acceptable, "unacceptably" non-standard approach.

Are you suggesting that I'm not open minded to different ideas in beekeeping ... if you are the I'd suggest you have a look back over my history of posts and demonstrate where you think I'm not open minded ? Critical of ideas that I feel are flawed ... yes ..but doesn't that come under the auspices of normal debate on a forum where personal views can be expressed ?

If you feel that we should be moderating debate more intensely well ... I'm sorry, this forum has always been light on moderation and IMO is all the better for it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Respectfully disagree.

I’m very interested in this
Why do you disagree that old time skep beekeepers might have little knowledge of bee behaviour?
Absolutely masses of research has been done into bee behaviour that is observable only if you have access to bees on combs.
Did the old timers know that bees sleep? That returning foraging bees in a flow recruit resting bees by shaking them awake? That the queen is slimmed down prior to swarming so that she can fly with the swarm? The bees harass her to keep moving. They stop feeding her.
Did they know that a queen doesn’t lead a swarm but that the workers push her, unwilling, out. Would they have observed a waggle dance and deciphered what it meant? That bees have dance floors? That drones get pushed to the periphery of the brood nest in the autumn and refused food then eventually jettisoned from the colony before winter sets in?
I bet they didn’t because they couldn’t see.

 

[emmac79]

I’m very interested in this
Why do you disagree that old time skep beekeepers might have little knowledge of bee behaviour?
Absolutely masses of research has been done into bee behaviour that is observable only if you have access to bees on combs.
Did the old timers know that bees sleep? That returning foraging bees in a flow recruit resting bees by shaking them awake? That the queen is slimmed down prior to swarming so that she can fly with the swarm? The bees harass her to keep moving. They stop feeding her.
Did they know that a queen doesn’t lead a swarm but that the workers push her, unwilling, out. Would they have observed a waggle dance and deciphered what it meant? That bees have dance floors? That drones get pushed to the periphery of the brood nest in the autumn and refused food then eventually jettisoned from the colony before winter sets in?
I bet they didn’t because they couldn’t see.

OK


Mabee said olden day beekeepers would have little knowledge of bee behaviour. I'm just disagreeing because that sounds very unlikely to me. I'm not debating with you. I just disagree. But I guess it depends on how far back we're going...

God, it's exhausting here sometimes!

 

[Erichalfbee]

OK


Mabee said olden day beekeepers would have little knowledge of bee behaviour. I'm just disagreeing because that sounds very unlikely to me. I'm not debating with you. I just disagree.

God, it's exhausting here sometimes!

I’m not asking for debate. Simply wondering why you disagreed. You’ve said why

 

[Malmcd]

In earlier times, I have heard that the primary crop was beeswax rather than honey. It strikes me that skeps, with frequent swarming, would have advantage over the later moveable frame hive for this purpose! Skeps became obsolete when other forms of wax and oil became available.

 

[drex]

I have kept bees,mainly in Nationals, for about 12 years. When I had a couple of years experience I built a KTBH, and inherited a Warre ( in which I installed castellations). I learned a lot from this, but was glad I started with " conventional" hives.
At some point I may well try a skep. Why? Because I might want to and I can, just to see what it's like. My crop will still come from the Nationals.

 

[user 20297]

I’m very interested in this
Why do you disagree that old time skep beekeepers might have little knowledge of bee behaviour?
Absolutely masses of research has been done into bee behaviour that is observable only if you have access to bees on combs.
Did the old timers know that bees sleep? That returning foraging bees in a flow recruit resting bees by shaking them awake? That the queen is slimmed down prior to swarming so that she can fly with the swarm? The bees harass her to keep moving. They stop feeding her.
Did they know that a queen doesn’t lead a swarm but that the workers push her, unwilling, out. Would they have observed a waggle dance and deciphered what it meant? That bees have dance floors? That drones get pushed to the periphery of the brood nest in the autumn and refused food then eventually jettisoned from the colony before winter sets in?
I bet they didn’t because they couldn’t see.

Commercial, skep beekeepers knew enough about bee behaviour to make a living from beekeeping, using minimal and sustainable materials.. From what I've seen in videos, they had the business down to a fine art and had enviable skills at handling bees.
There's obviously a lot that is still not known about bee behaviour,, and some beekeepers, myself included, are more interested in the practicalities of beekeeping than we are in the finer detail of the bees' lives; but it doesn't stop us keeping bees successfully (I'm obviously speaking on behalf of others, rather than myself )