New Queens - how long in the cage?

[RichardK]

Tomorrow I'm introducing 2 new Queens. Generally how long do you leave her in the cage before removing the plastic tab? Or is it a question of behaviour towards her?

And what orientation do you put the cage at between two frames?

Many thanks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

put the cage in ASAP but in 24 hours tops,unless the bees seem very aggressive, take the tab off - orientation doesn't really matter, I'm guessing it's one of the plastic 'matchbox tupe cages? put a cocktail stick through the eye hole at the end of the cage then hang it between two frames with the stich at 90 degrees to the frames

 

[RichardK]

That's exactly the cage. I'll make the nucs up once they arrive, so introduction can be very quick thereafter - should I leave them a bit of time or really get straight to it?

Once the plastic tab is removed, how long before she is freed & how long should I leave it before I check on things / remove cage?

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

[user 20297]

put the cage in ASAP but in 24 hours tops,unless the bees seem very aggressive, take the tab off - orientation doesn't really matter, I'm guessing it's one of the plastic 'matchbox tupe cages? put a cocktail stick through the eye hole at the end of the cage then hang it between two frames with the stich at 90 degrees to the frames

.....almost exactly what I did following good advice here for which I am very grateful. I simply wedged the cage horizontally between the top bars of two centrally placed frames which placed it over the brood, and pushed them even tighter together. After the 24 hours I removed the tab. After another couple of days the bees were struggling with the hard fondant so I slid the cage open with great care and let the queen free.

 

[Swarm]

It depends on the bees who are accepting her. Some are really easy going, I had a colony that would not draw EQC and still had some 3 day old eggs when I broke the tabs. As a donor colony they were superb, yet others can be absolutely stubborn.
She is best out of the cage as soon as possible but into a family of receptive, friendly bees, not a hostile bunch who resent her.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Better still let her go straight into a push-in cage so she can lay as soon as she’s ready. Then lift off the cage in a few days

 

[Foxylad]

Make absolutely sure there are no qc on any of the frames, shake all the bees from every frame. Before releasing the tab, they will raise there own queen in preference to one your trying to introduce. In theory they can not make a qc from an egg that is older than 4 days.
If you introduce her and there building qc then she’s not been accepted. After the eggs are to old to make into qc, then they are hopelessly queen less.
Feed light syrup, acceptance if better if there’s a flow on.
Release her and watch the bees reactions. They should be grooming her and generally ignoring her, as she moves across the frame unhindered. If there aggressive or climbing on her back. Back in the cage, another 24hrs. Check again for qc.
Once released, leave the hive alone for at least a week to 10 days. Dont be tempted to peak. If there’s pollen coming in, that’s a good sign shes been accepted and laying.

 

[Erichalfbee]

In theory they can not make a qc from an egg that is older than 4 days.

6

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That's exactly the cage. I'll make the nucs up once they arrive, so introduction can be very quick thereafter - should I leave them a bit of time or really get straight to it?

Do it as soon as possible, for me, it's usually the time between making up the nuc and going back to the truck (ten yards away) to get the new queen

 

[RichardK]

.....almost exactly what I did following good advice here for which I am very grateful. I simply wedged the cage horizontally between the top bars of two centrally placed frames which placed it over the brood, and pushed them even tighter together. After the 24 hours I removed the tab. After another couple of days the bees were struggling with the hard fondant so I slid the cage open with great care and let the queen free.

Thanks for your reply. Any reason for waiting 24 hours to remove the tab? Or was that advice you received? And was the fondant too hard because it was too cold / too hot / the mix ....?

 

[RichardK]

It depends on the bees who are accepting her. Some are really easy going, I had a colony that would not draw EQC and still had some 3 day old eggs when I broke the tabs. As a donor colony they were superb, yet others can be absolutely stubborn.
She is best out of the cage as soon as possible but into a family of receptive, friendly bees, not a hostile bunch who resent her.

Thanks Steve. The colony is generally easy going. I'm actually dividing the hive into 3 - the original and two nucs with newly mated queens arriving today. So it sounds like I should watch how they react with her and if all is well either :

1: release from the cage myself, or
2: help them break through the fondant a bit quicker.

Delivery expected this morning, so if all is looking good would you recommend I look to helping her out later today?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Any reason for waiting 24 hours to remove the tab?

It's just to give the bees a bit more time to settle with the queen before they can get her out, it will only take a few hours to get through the candy, which is fine if they are desperate to get the queen out and laying, but not so good if they just don't like her and want to get rid. I wouldn't leave it any longer though unless they are obviously aggressive towards the queen. for the sake of a day, is it worth taking the chance?

 

[RichardK]

Better still let her go straight into a push-in cage so she can lay as soon as she’s ready. Then lift off the cage in a few days

Just looking up what these are...I might have a go at making one as it looks like I have the materials handy. Thanks!

 

[user 20297]

Thanks for your reply. Any reason for waiting 24 hours to remove the tab? Or was that advice you received? And was the fondant too hard because it was too cold / too hot / the mix ....?

The 24 hours was on advice; and I think it's precaution in case the bees decide to tunnel in and kill the queen. The fondant may just have been that type...it had the texture of a sugar cube. I considered wetting it, but even the attendant bees bar one, were still alive, so I judged the colony to have accepted their new queen. This was about a week ago and the queen is now settled and laying eggs.

I'm a complete beginner and done this twice now, following mainly @jenkinsbrynmair previous advice and I've had quick success both times.

 

[RichardK]

By the by, would it be better to leave marking her until later?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

yes, leave them settle with her for a few weeks

 

[Polymorph]

If hopelessly queenless I've had them literally surge over the queen cage and released tab immediately. If not in that space, then a pushin is better,especially if full hive rather than nuc.

 

[Swarm]

The candy plug can be an issue, I've found the queen still locked in a couple of days after breaking the tab. I added some drops of water with the last queen I introduced and even then found her a couple of days later, they were almost through the candy so I opened the cage. This was a small nuc made up with combs placed above an excluder beforehand so populated with nurse bees. I leave them for a while to clear any flying bees that may be present, before siting the nuc and putting the cage in. The only sealed brood combs I could find also had small amounts of eggs/young larvae so I expected to have EQC's to break down but they were determined and kept on building them. When I released her, their behaviour was still not what I like and they were all over her, not balling just over excited crowding she even started piping. They gave her a bit of a mauling but didn't kill her so I kept a very close eye on their intentions until her brood out numbered the original bees, as until then they could still decide to remove her.