New Queen Arrived In The Post

[Stevie Day]

I went down to the apiary yesterday & placed the queen cage in the centre frames of the new colony. Inspected prior to doing so, no queen cells & no sign of original queen mistakenly transported across when moving the frames over. Candy cap left on & will remove tomorrow evening after work.....So far so good.

But here's my dilemma. The other hive has swarmed I had my suspicions on Weds then I removed the frames for the new colony. Couldn't find HRH & there was much less in number of bees in the the supers. I was in hope that I just missed seeing her in the fading light & the workers had simply gone downstairs for the night.

But on inspecting the hive yesterday, the 3 supers had hardly any workers on them. The brood & a half was busy & with about the No of bees expected after removing 4 frames. I double checked all of the frames & HRH has definitely absconded. There are a No of queen cells (which I've left intact) for now.

But there are larvae at early development stage ~2mm in length. Couldnt see any eggs (my eyes dont work at that level). Which indicate presence of a queen? Seem too well ordered for a laying worker. Or are these from the last eggs she laid prior to swarming?

I'm not sure how to procede.

Do I;

A, Remove all QCs except 2 capped QCs which are on one frame to develope & hope that the new queen that emerges will mate with some drones that happen to be flying through the area.

B, Remove all QCs & purchase a new queen to introduce to the colony?

C, Put the frame with 2 capped QCs into a nuc I have on site? See how the original hive develops over next week or two. If no new larvae or queen seen, then no queen - then introduce the queen residing in the nuc. Again hoping to luck that she has sucessfully mated.

Any advice is welcome.

 

[Stevie Day]

Just for clarity of time frame.

25/05/15 Hive inspected, HRH seen.

27/05/15 Four frames removed for new colony. No sign of HRH population seems diminished.

30/05/15 No queen, hive definitely swarmed but larvae at early stage ~2mm in brood cells.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Stevie.
Read this

 

[Stevie Day]

Thanks for the pdf file EricA,
Very enlightening & practical. I knew the bees created QCs for swarming, supercedure, cups & emergency queens. But didn't know they can be told apart.

On reflection from my insp on 25/05/15. I took down 20+ QCs nearrly all swarm cells, & some cups. And one of the QCs was half way down on the face of the comb. So probably a supercedure cell.
This would make sense, as HRH seemed to be laying more than usual qtys of drone cells. But she's been a prolific layer & was still laying large qtys of worker brood. With her being only a year old (purchased queen said to be born 2014) I thought I may have being overly concerned at it was just due to overall qtys of cells & no other hive for reference.

Still reading,
Cheers,
Steve

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But here's my dilemma. The other hive has swarmed I had my suspicions on Weds then I removed the frames for the new colony. Couldn't find HRH & there was much less in number of bees in the the supers. I was in hope that I just missed seeing her in the fading light & the workers had simply gone downstairs for the night.

But on inspecting the hive yesterday, the 3 supers had hardly any workers on them. The brood & a half was busy & with about the No of bees expected after removing 4 frames. I double checked all of the frames & HRH has definitely absconded. There are a No of queen cells (which I've left intact) for now.

But there are larvae at early development stage ~2mm in length. Couldnt see any eggs (my eyes dont work at that level). Which indicate presence of a queen? Seem too well ordered for a laying worker. Or are these from the last eggs she laid prior to swarming?

I'm not sure how to procede.

Do I;

A, Remove all QCs except 2 capped QCs which are on one frame to develope & hope that the new queen that emerges will mate with some drones that happen to be flying through the area.

B, Remove all QCs & purchase a new queen to introduce to the colony?

C, Put the frame with 2 capped QCs into a nuc I have on site? See how the original hive develops over next week or two. If no new larvae or queen seen, then no queen - then introduce the queen residing in the nuc. Again hoping to luck that she has sucessfully mated.

Any advice is welcome.

Firstly, forget the myth (in this case) that presence of eggs means the queen hasn't swarmed yet, queens will lay until the last moment seen it a few times just this year.
What to do? save your money.
a)If there is an open QC with a good larvae within, keep that one (mark the frame) and take down the rest.
b)If no open ones, keep two sealed ones close together.

In either case, go back in three to four days and check again for new QC's, if there are:
in scenario a)keep the original one and knock down the rest.
In scenario b) If there is an open QC with a good larvae within, keep that one (mark the frame) and take down the rest.
You can, if desired check again in another few days, then leave well alone for a few weeks.

On reflection from my insp on 25/05/15. I took down 20+ QCs nearrly all swarm cells, & some cups. And one of the QCs was half way down on the face of the comb. So probably a supercedure cell.

Don't take it as literal though - if you have that many QC's they are all swarm cells, the one in the middle of the comb is just that - a swarm cell in the middle of the comb (you may well see a build of of drone cells preceedeing a swarm). You should only be considering supersedure if there are other indicators as well - only a few (one,two, maybe three or four) QC's usually on the same frame and very close together, more usual on the periphery of the brood nest (first frame with brood) rather than slap bang in the middle.
But sometimes they will still swarm even when all the signs are it's supersedure

 

[Stevie Day]

Firstly, forget the myth (in this case) that presence of eggs means the queen hasn't swarmed yet, queens will lay until the last moment seen it a few times just this year.
What to do? save your money.
a)If there is an open QC with a good larvae within, keep that one (mark the frame) and take down the rest.
b)If no open ones, keep two sealed ones close together.

In either case, go back in three to four days and check again for new QC's, if there are:
in scenario a)keep the original one and knock down the rest.
In scenario b) If there is an open QC with a good larvae within, keep that one (mark the frame) and take down the rest.
You can, if desired check again in another few days, then leave well alone for a few weeks.

Thanks for the advice jenkinsbrynmair;
Popped down to apiary this evening after work. Firstly I removed plastic cap from the queen cage in the new colony. Bees clustering around the cage, but non aggressive towards her which is good & checked to make sure she's alive & kicking
Will return in a few days to make sure she has been released

Then the stressful bit. Your quotation at bottom of your posts jenkinsbrynmair is very true.

Was worried that in the intervening time they might've had a cast swarm. Would it be too early for this?

I decided to retain one capped QC & removed the rest. The bees on 2 of frames in the area of this QC seem much more defensive than the rest.

Will check again in 3 or 4 days for QC status.

One question though. On the assumption that a new queen is successfully raised. What is the probability of her mating flights being successful?

As this is only established hive I have & the drones will be her brothers. My understanding is she won't be mating with them & I'm not aware of other hives in the area.

 

[sean-a]

Was advised that the Q- hive just needed to be open and exposed to the light for 10 minutes....I just tipped a swarm into the Q- hive.
I'll let you know if the introduction works.

There seem to be as many opinions as there are beekeepers on here......Whats a novice to do?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

One question though. On the assumption that a new queen is successfully raised. What is the probability of her mating flights being successful?

As this is only established hive I have & the drones will be her brothers. My understanding is she won't be mating with them & I'm not aware of other hives in the area.

There will be other colonies in the area, don't worry. If you register with beebase it gives you the number of apiaries in your locality - you'll be surprised.
Also queens will fly quite a distance to be mated - as will drones, so the area she has to play with is quite extensive.

Was advised that the Q- hive just needed to be open and exposed to the light for 10 minutes....I just tipped a swarm into the Q- hive.
I'll let you know if the introduction works.

There seem to be as many opinions as there are beekeepers on here......Whats a novice to do?

Eh?!

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Was advised that the Q- hive just needed to be open and exposed to the light for 10 minutes....I just tipped a swarm into the Q- hive.

I'll let you know if the introduction works.



There seem to be as many opinions as there are beekeepers on here......Whats a novice to do?

Well blowing a bit of smoke might not hurt (and is in the spirit of the forum you mention).