New bee need of help

[Emabe80]

Hi am a new beekeeper I had my 2 nucs Monday we traveled 80 miles. They were all sealed and the ( beekeepers other hives were doing fine) well as I learned later that they weren't that great I got them back to our woodland opened the entrence and left them be well the day after I thought I'd just check to see if the queen was released( yes) she was. I put them in there new gives. But up close I saw mites (the so called bee keeper said he treated them 2 weeks ago) but I'm worried.i left them up until today I don't think there doing well there are very little bees in fact I see more dead today counted at least 20. In the nucs there was only 1 frame of bees all the other 4 frames were rubbish old and fallen apart so I replaced them with new foundation frames( hope this was good thing to do. Also 1 Queen of hive 1 she has bits of wing missing. Should I be really worried please any help or advice or if anyone is in Betleystaffordshire and can come and inspect and help me (free) that will be great thanks so if the thread is a bit messed up not used to asking advice. Kind regards emma

 

[pargyle]

Hi am a new beekeeper I had my 2 nucs Monday we traveled 80 miles. They were all sealed and the ( beekeepers other hives were doing fine) well as I learned later that they weren't that great I got them back to our woodland opened the entrence and left them be well the day after I thought I'd just check to see if the queen was released( yes) she was. I put them in there new gives. But up close I saw mites (the so called bee keeper said he treated them 2 weeks ago) but I'm worried.i left them up until today I don't think there doing well there are very little bees in fact I see more dead today counted at least 20. In the nucs there was only 1 frame of bees all the other 4 frames were rubbish old and fallen apart so I replaced them with new foundation frames( hope this was good thing to do. Also 1 Queen of hive 1 she has bits of wing missing. Should I be really worried please any help or advice or if anyone is in Betleystaffordshire and can come and inspect and help me (free) that will be great thanks so if the thread is a bit messed up not used to asking advice. Kind regards emma

Firstly, calm down... don't panic.

Bits of queen's wing missing probably means that she has had her wings clipped .. it's a measure some beekeepers take to reduce the queen's ability to fly and therefore she can't swarm when the colony decides they should swarm.

Secondly ..where did you see these 'mites'. There are nearly always varroa mites in a colony ... even if they were 'treated' two weeks ago. It may not be something you have to worry about yet. 20 Dead bees after the stress of being moved and contained is not a lot of bees ... that could just be a natural die off.

Changing the frames for foundation was probably not the best move at present as your bees now have to build comb. I would take at least two of those frames out of your Nucleus (I assume they are in a Nucleus sized hive ?) and replace them with some sort of insulation ..blocks of kingspan are ideal but a plastic bin liner full of something like straw or even old clothes would do in an emergency ... what you are trying to do is reduce the amount of space they have to heat.

Feed them a couple of litres of 1:1 syrup to give them a chance to build out some comb.

Did you see any sealed brood in the colonies ? Or eggs or larvae ? Were there any stores (pollen or honey) in the frames.

It's not yet a terminal situation but you need to be careful not to make matters worse.

Slow down and tell us as much as you can about each of your hives ... what sort are they ..timber or Polystyrene.. what size are they ? National/14x12/langstroth ? Are they Nucs or Full size brood boxes ? Anything else you can tell us ... that would be helpful.

 

[pargyle]

Just noted on your other intro thread that you have bought two 'Thornes full set up' .. so it sounds like you have two full sized hives that you have put your bees into ? If that is the case it's even more important to reduce the space in the brood box down to something that a small colony can cope with .. if there was only one frame of bees in your Nuc(s) they really are small and not what I would expect from a nuc being sold.

More importantly ... as I said earlier... was there any Brood/Eggs/Larvae in there ? What was in the frames that you 'threw out' ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

if there was only one frame of bees in your Nuc(s) they really are small and not what I would expect from a nuc being sold.

Sounds a bit like some thrown together job, and not a very good one at that, with queen in cage.

Would of thought a five frame nuc being sold should have three to four almost full frames of brood, frame of stores, sound frames and comb, and plenty of healthy bees filling the box and needing transfer to a full size hive.

 

[thenovice]

Hi Emma,

Welcome to the frantic world of beekeeping. I think Pargyle is spot on with his advice.
If the queen starts laying, you are out of the woods if you keep them warm and give them the means to build comb. if it was a thrown together job as hivemaker suggests, lets hope the bees think they have swarmed and start building comb like mad

 

[Excession]

Pargyles post is on the money.

But Hivemakers is just as important, a five frame nuc should have 3 frames of brood and lots of bees.

If it is only one frame of brood and lots of bees it's very weak and shouldn't be being sold really. You shouldn't put these in a full hive as it's too big.

If it's only one frame of bees not brood. Then you have been completely swindled, and don't have a viable colony.

 

[B+.]

In the nucs there was only 1 frame of bees all the other 4 frames were rubbish old and fallen apart

Hi Emma

It looks like they were a bit on the small side but you've already been given some good advice.

Can I just add that there is lots of good information for beginners on Beebase in the "best practice" area
http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/index.cfm?pageid=167

 

[Emabe80]

Re help

Hi
Thanks for all the relays and the advice Ive just made up a batch of sugar syrup so I will pop that on today. They are kept in a woodland there are a lot off flowers in full bloom now also fruit trees etc I do run a smallholding in there we grow all fruit and veg so there will be good flow off nector/pollen. Also I did see eggs and brood in there capped and uncapped cells plus done stores. So apart from me panicking about the idiot that sold me these bees I do still think they are a poor colany and I do not want to lose any it is my first time bee keeping and do not want to fail im going join a bee club this week for that extra advice and to learn more thank you everybody advice is always needed kind regards to all Emma

 

[pargyle]

Hi
Thanks for all the relays and the advice Ive just made up a batch of sugar syrup so I will pop that on today. They are kept in a woodland there are a lot off flowers in full bloom now also fruit trees etc I do run a smallholding in there we grow all fruit and veg so there will be good flow off nector/pollen. Also I did see eggs and brood in there capped and uncapped cells plus done stores. So apart from me panicking about the idiot that sold me these bees I do still think they are a poor colany and I do not want to lose any it is my first time bee keeping and do not want to fail im going join a bee club this week for that extra advice and to learn more thank you everybody advice is always needed kind regards to all Emma

Good ... make sure you reduce the space they have in the box down to about three or four frames absolute maximum ... it's pointless just feeding them if they have too much space in the hive ... they need heat to build comb and they need heat to keep the brood that is in there at a living temperature ... if they have too much space the bees will cluster over the brood to keep it warm and you won't get any comb built. Insulate the spare space in the hive and if you have a super put that on top of the crownboard with the feeder in it and fill that with insulation as well. Think warm and cosy to get them to build up ...

You need to get the queen laying as much as possible and you need more bees ... the forage you clearly have is only going to be of benefit if there are enough bees to forage on it.

 

[dexter's shed]

where did you place you hives?
I ask as I too keep bees in my woodland, under trees with gaps, of course my garden bees start foraging at first light as the sun is coming up, the woodland bees takes an hour or two longer to get motivated as it's cooler in the shade

I would have been inclined to leave them in the nucs until all frames had bees/brood/stores etc, as now they need to keep warm in a much larger box

also, closing the gate after the horse has bolted springs to mind, finding a mentor and joining a bee club should have been your first port of call, before rushing out to buy hives and nucs

 

[Emabe80]

Hi thank you I have a 14x12 brood box ( don't know how post pics cuz I've loads) so in there are 10 frames 2 of which there are using the others are just new frames and foundation some what the (rubbish bee keeper ) put in the nuc they were fit for bin but used 2. So what should I do with the other frames then I'm putting a super on later with feeder in what can I use for insulation thanks em

 

[pargyle]

Hi thank you I have a 14x12 brood box ( don't know how post pics cuz I've loads) so in there are 10 frames 2 of which there are using the others are just new frames and foundation some what the (rubbish bee keeper ) put in the nuc they were fit for bin but used 2. So what should I do with the other frames then I'm putting a super on later with feeder in what can I use for insulation thanks em

Right ... a 14 x 12 is a huge cavern for the colony(s) you have. Just take out about 6 of the frames of foundation ... Do you have a dummy board (hive divider)? If so push the frames that you are going to use up against the front (entrance end) of the hive .. Frame of drawn comb from the nuc in the front, then the two frames they are using then a frame of foundation, then your dummy board/hive divider. The fill the spare space in the hive with a bin liner full of anything that will insulate it ... straw, wood shavings, old pillow .. anything.

Has your crown board got one or two feeder holes ? If it has two then site the feeder over the front hole and block up the back one. Then put your super on and just fill the space around and above the feeder with supermarket plastic bags filled with anything as above. Then put the roof on.

If your crown board only has one hole ... cut another one so that you can site the feeder over the four/five frames at the front of the hive.

If you don't have a dummy board cut a piece of plywood the size of a 14x12 framr, (or mdf .. even heavy duty cardboard will do in an emergency) and tack it onto a frame to make a divider.

Kingspan/Celotex Insulation board is the best stuff to use for insulation .. you can buy it in sheets at Wickes or most of us go skip diving on building sites and get it for free ... with permission of course.

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Celotex-50mm-High-Performance-Cavity-Wall-Board-450x1200mm/p/190546

 

[BeeJayBee]

In the nucs there was only 1 frame of bees all the other 4 frames were rubbish old and fallen apart

But Hivemakers [post] is just as important, a five frame nuc should have 3 frames of brood and lots of bees.

Whoever supplied this has done the same as some nucs I saw last year. (Not the same supplier, locations don't match.) There were five dirty old frames, some bees, a queen and some food. No sealed brood, no capped stores, frames fit only for the bonfire.

There is a code of conduct for sales of nucs and some suppliers turn nasty when new beekeepers criticize them or want a replacement nuc of the right standard. Some will even tell a new beekeeper they don't know what to expect, or don't understand what they are seeing, because they are too new.

These bad suppliers get away with it because there's nobody to enforce the code of conduct, and few new beekeepers want to admit they've bought a sealed box full of expensive rubbish.

I would have been inclined to leave them in the nucs until all frames had bees/brood/stores etc, as now they need to keep warm in a much larger boxs

to some extent, but I would also contact the supplier and ask for a replacement nucs that match the BBKA and FERA guidelines. A new beekeeper should not be struggling to get their new bees to survive, they should be up and running straight away.

 

[Hivemaker.]

These bad suppliers get away with it because there's nobody to enforce the code of conduct, and few new beekeepers want to admit they've bought a sealed box full of expensive rubbish.

They should not even be picking up a sealed box of bees, they should first be shown the bees, brood, queen, etc, at the time of collection, during the transfer to their own box, or before sealing up the one they are already in for transport.

 

[BeeJayBee]

They should not even be picking up a sealed box of bees, they should first be shown the bees, brood, queen, etc, at the time of collection, during the transfer to their own box, or before sealing up the one they are already in for transport.

I know that, you know that, the sellers should also know that, but too many new beekeepers do not know that. They part with a lot of money, and buy on trust.

They just get told to turn up at a given time, often late at night or very early in the morning, to collect their bees which are 'ready' i.e. already sealed inside a box. The result all too often is exactly as Emabe80 describes ...

Hi am a new beekeeper I had my 2 nucs Monday we traveled 80 miles. They were all sealed and ... as I learned later that they weren't that great .... In the nucs there was only 1 frame of bees all the other 4 frames were rubbish old and fallen apart

 

[For want of a better word]

They should not even be picking up a sealed box of bees, they should first be shown the bees, brood, queen, etc, at the time of collection, during the transfer to their own box, or before sealing up the one they are already in for transport.

where has the "I agree" placard gone?
Not all breeders have the same high standards as you Pete.........unfortunately!!



Yeghes da

 

[Dishmop]

Here..You want to borrow it?