Nectar/honey flows will they ever be "like the good old days"

[Plenty of honey]

So this has been on my mind. In Certain years, when for instance lime trees exude lots of sap and at the same time they support huge numbers of aphids, So we have bees bringing in Nectar from honey dew as well as nectar from the usual flowers. We might say that that year was a good year! what percentage of this nectar from honey dew and is it measurable.
Does the constant amount of pesticides used annually in the field have an affect on the residual overwintering aphid levels in all areas. I read somewhere that their are some people out there who study these aphid numbers throughout the year.
In the French Alps for example i know there is a crop of "Miellat" which comes exclusively from the pine trees. Millions upon millions of Aphids excrete the honey dew, Some years there is none, other years its a good yield.
Does anyone have any idea of percentages of the crop might be this honey dew nectar (in our areas of England, Northern Europe perhaps) , ratios etc to the years we get it. is is becoming less and less due to constant pesticide usage over large areas.
I would be grateful and interested to find out more about this.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Does the constant amount of pesticides used annually in the field have an affect on the residual overwintering aphid levels in all areas. I read somewhere that their are some people out there who study these aphid numbers throughout the year.

Not much in the way of pesticides used here, and not seen very many aphids on the lime trees when they are in flower either, often non.

Another tree that is reported to have a lot of aphids for honeydew are beech trees, thousands of them around this area and I have never seen any aphids on them.

 

[B+.]

So this has been on my mind. In Certain years, when for instance lime trees exude lots of sap and at the same time they support huge numbers of aphids, So we have bees bringing in Nectar from honey dew as well as nectar from the usual flowers. We might say that that year was a good year! what percentage of this nectar from honey dew and is it measurable.
Does the constant amount of pesticides used annually in the field have an affect on the residual overwintering aphid levels in all areas. I read somewhere that their are some people out there who study these aphid numbers throughout the year.
In the French Alps for example i know there is a crop of "Miellat" which comes exclusively from the pine trees. Millions upon millions of Aphids excrete the honey dew, Some years there is none, other years its a good yield.
Does anyone have any idea of percentages of the crop might be this honey dew nectar (in our areas of England, Northern Europe perhaps) , ratios etc to the years we get it. is is becoming less and less due to constant pesticide usage over large areas.
I would be grateful and interested to find out more about this.

Is this simultaneous?
I understood that beekeeers who went after that crop had to migrate to the mountains at the end of summer

 

[Plenty of honey]

Is this simultaneous?
I understood that beekeeers who went after that crop had to migrate to the mountains at the end of summer

I really couldn't say as i dont know what other crops they harvest, other than this is a mid May crop, so i assume its whatever they can get too next!

 

[Finman]

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Honey dew exists when weathers are hot and dry several weeks. When it rains, water washes sugar from tree leaves. No one has so much pestisices that they can affect on aphid populations in forests.

In summer 2016 we got huge amounts of aphids from Russia and from Ukraine to east Finland. There we got a huge yield in June. Then it began to rain, and it rained the whole time when **** bloomed, 3 weeks.

In our woods Populus tremula gives well honey dew and it has often lots of aphids.

In needle trees honey dew is easy to wash down in small rain.

I have noticed that aphids start their pissing on car before leave buds have opened in birches.
.

 

[Plenty of honey]

.
Honey dew exists when weathers are hot and dry several weeks. When it rains, water washes sugar from tree leaves. No one has so much pestisices that they can affect on aphid populations in forests.

Yes i think thats a valid point about forests! its unlikely that aphids would be affected in forests!

 

[Plenty of honey]

Not much in the way of pesticides used here, and not seen very many aphids on the lime trees when they are in flower either, often non.

Another tree that is reported to have a lot of aphids for honeydew are beech trees, thousands of them around this area and I have never seen any aphids on them.

yes i agree, i was thinking about your area too and i suppose with the forest and woods you have in patches nearby there would be no pesticide treatment. Do you ever know of Aphid on your heather which could augment your crops, or in your view is it solely down to flower and plant yield?

 

[Finman]

About good old days? I did not understand much about pastures. Then 30 years ago I started analyse good pastures and I noticed that there are easily 3 fold differencies between places. But it is impossible to quess, do I get honey dew.

 

[Plenty of honey]

About good old days? I did not understand much about pastures. Then 30 years ago I started analyse good pastures and I noticed that there are easily 3 fold differencies between places. But it is impossible to quess, do I get honey dew.

" the good old days" i was really referring to the stories of huge crops or honey that could contain much larger percentages of nectar from aphids (honey dews) i am convinced that in certain areas this has a big impact on natural aphid populations. Cereal producers routinely spray against Aphid. this means that in "cereal areas or wheat, barley and oats) the residual levels must be constantly being eroded. in Certain ares there is probably no difference at all?
3 fold differences, i agree this must be correct. and i am sure it varies tremendously according to climate and area.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Do you ever know of Aphid on your heather which could augment your crops

Not that I'm aware of, plenty of heather flies... and thankfully, not too often in any harmful numbers, heather beetles.

 

[Goran]

At my place I notice almost every year more or less honeydew in lime honey ( from decidious trees prevail). But conditions for huge crop don't klick each year. Pesticides aren't issue. I am in somewhat wilderness surrounded with mainly beech forests.
In one other part of Croatia they have huge flows from confierous trees. As I recall they don't complaint about pesticides also. Where these pine-coniferous grow are enormous forests in wilderness ( bear is the problem there..).
The conditions are what you already know - population of aphids that season ( not each season the same - lot dependent on how harsh winters are, as we learn), warm nights, high humidity,no rain, not too high day temps - honeydew can solidify on trees, preffered without strong warm southern wind.
I had only one season with nice crop of honeydew couple years ago.. It is nice when you walk in the forest and 10-30 meters above your head hear in the branches bees as swarms through whole forest..

 

[Finman]

" the good old days" i was really referring to the stories of huge crops or honey that could contain much larger percentages of nectar from aphids (honey dews) i am convinced that in certain areas this has a big impact on natural aphid populations. Cereal producers routinely spray against Aphid. this means that in "cereal areas or wheat, barley and oats) the residual levels must be constantly being eroded. in Certain ares there is probably no difference at all?
3 fold differences, i agree this must be correct. and i am sure it varies tremendously according to climate and area.

I mean differencies inside 10 km distance. Weathers are same and climate.

 

[For want of a better word]

Back in the latter half of the last century when residing in Dorking Surrey our beech trees would literally be humming with honeybees collecting something from the leaves on a hot day..... never did ever get a "good" crop of honey from the exotic bees we kept there, 30lbs tops... if they did not eat it!
Never thought about honeydew.. I thought they were gathering some product, gum or something for propolis, that they produced in magnificent quantities!

Nadelik Lowen

 

[Finman]

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Most common trees are conifers in our surroudings. They are not honey automat even if they have allways aphids. Our July is the most rainy month, and it is rare that we have 3 weeks without rain in July. Even small rain washes honey dew from needles.

Biggest honey dew flows have come from broad leave trees like lime and populus during 3 weeks dry weather.

Often bees such a little after morning when night dew dilutes the sugar. In full sun sugar dries up and bees cannot forage it.

Trees have much aphids what wasps hunt all the time. A loud humming can be heard in wood canopy when wasp fly there in the middle of summer. If heavy rain kills the aphids, wasps begin to hunt what ever they find: Berries, human nose, beer , beehives.... Aphids are good food for small birds too.


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[Millet]

The most popular tree around here is Sycamore, every year they get infested with aphids and greenfly, not sure if the bees collect the aphid poop but the windscreen of the cars do and it is a pain to get of.

 

[Finman]

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In good old days bee breeds were not good compared to recent ones. Recent bees are like from another planet. Modern breeding has made very good work.
T
Our breeders have consentrated to honey production, and only couple is going to fight against mites in the Future.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

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Recent bees are like from another planet.

same could be said for some beekeepers

 

[Finman]

same could be said for some beekeepers

However the yield rules, what they are.

Last time it was tectonic plate, now planet ... Next galaxy... Then alternative fact.

All about old time aphids.

 

[Poly Hive]

Bless the ignore list.

If you read through Manley I think it was, who noted each of a fair number of seasons through the 30's that there were surprisingly few great ones.

Another BF told me there was a spectacular year in the 60's. Note one of.

I had an amazing season in 2014. My best in some 25 years or so.

Not that common are they? So before worrying about aphids, and Julie Walters program last night on trees was interesting on that point if a bit vague on bees, I would forget in the UK about them apart from the roses of course.

PH

 

[linoleum bonypart]

With there being a solar minimum I think the next year's aren't going to be fantastic