NE Coast

[Millet]

WHO are the members on here who have good success with honey yields on the North East Coast.

When i Say North East i am around half a mile away from the sea, loads of forage but it just does not seem to happen, am i doing something wrong or is the cold misty wind a problem..i have bees from stock that stack supers up inland but here they are struggling to fill one super, i don't want to contradict myself but they where onto a second super but that has stopped and they are back onto one, osr still in flow also but cold (coat weather) .

Does me think move the bees inland.. because that is what i am thinking as this is becoming hard work for no gain.

 

[mickbees23]

Hi Millet,
I keep my bees around Billingham / Hartlepool area and suffer the same ' local climate ' effect you probably experience. Bee keepers even just 5 miles away struggle to understand the difference it makes living in our area. I have experienced 9C difference in apiaries just 1 mile apart. We suffer with easterly sea breezes bringing very cold air into the dip in the land on the coast from mid March until mid July which really does hold our bees back. This has been the worst spring I have ever endured much worse than 2012 and 2013 so if your bees have survived then you have done well. Reading national forums is a form of api masochism so don't read too much into what you see. While southern keepers are reporting 5 supers they are 10C warmer all year than we are here. I am always amazed at the difference in our local associations members reports as I am north of the Tees and most are south and I am always at least 2 weeks behind them. Our season is very compacted and this year even more so. Reading the southern bee keepers mantra from the BBKA magazine I always thought I was doing something wrong. Its not us, its their southern biased reporting that fails to provide a national view point for a national magazine and so makes you question your ability. 40lbs of honey is a good return in our local area. 2012 I got 8lbs, 2015 & 2016 some made 60lbs + the heather harvest. Best I have had was 80lbs runny + 95lbs heather which was last year from one colony. I don't have a single full super yet this year. I am now experimenting with poly hives and the results are looking very positive. Its the only way forward I can see to mitigate the dreadful springs we have to endure here. Although the whole countryside can be brimming with flowers its either too cold for nectar, to cold and windy to fly or too wet, windy and cold for anything. This year although May has been fantastic weather my records show that my colonies were bigger 14th March 2017 than they were on 16th May 2018. On a more positive note for me, I collected a swarm last year that has been foraging around 4C lower temps then the rest of my bees so I am going to breed from that colony and see how they progress.

I do hope I have helped to ease your mind a bit.

Cheers, Mick.

 

[maddydog]

I for one would be interested to see how your 'swarm' colony (s) stack up against your usual bees. Not just foraging behaviour but aggressive, disease, and swarming tendency.

As for yields, unless I know and trust the person then I'd salt their claims with a hefty pinch. Join 3 colonies together pre osr flow and watch them fill 5 supers, what's the yield: 100lbs or 33?

 

[Beefriendly]

Hi Millet,
I keep my bees around Billingham / Hartlepool area and suffer the same ' local climate ' effect you probably experience. Bee keepers even just 5 miles away struggle to understand the difference it makes living in our area..

I still think we need to experiment with different strains of bees in your area Mick although I suspect Millet has answered the question as he has some of my queens plus the cold coastal weather.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

WHO are the members on here who have good success with honey yields on the North East Coast.

When i Say North East i am around half a mile away from the sea, loads of forage but it just does not seem to happen, am i doing something wrong or is the cold misty wind a problem..i have bees from stock that stack supers up inland but here they are struggling to fill one super, i don't want to contradict myself but they where onto a second super but that has stopped and they are back onto one, osr still in flow also but cold (coat weather) .

Does me think move the bees inland.. because that is what i am thinking as this is becoming hard work for no gain.

I'm wondering if your proximity to the North Sea could result in higher than normal salt levels on the available forage? Winds could pick up spray and carry it inland some distance. Only thinking out loud
Apart from a couple of strong hive the rest have been slow to get going in my apiary this year. The better weather over the last couple of weeks has created a step change and suddenly there's brood aplenty due to emerge.

 

[coffindodger]

I'm wondering if your proximity to the North Sea could result in higher than normal salt levels on the available forage? Winds could pick up spray and carry it inland some distance.

 

[Millet]

Hi Millet,
I keep my bees around Billingham / Hartlepool area and suffer the same ' local climate ' effect you probably experience. Bee keepers even just 5 miles away struggle to understand the difference it makes living in our area. I have experienced 9C difference in apiaries just 1 mile apart. We suffer with easterly sea breezes bringing very cold air into the dip in the land on the coast from mid March until mid July which really does hold our bees back. This has been the worst spring I have ever endured much worse than 2012 and 2013 so if your bees have survived then you have done well. Reading national forums is a form of api masochism so don't read too much into what you see. While southern keepers are reporting 5 supers they are 10C warmer all year than we are here. I am always amazed at the difference in our local associations members reports as I am north of the Tees and most are south and I am always at least 2 weeks behind them. Our season is very compacted and this year even more so. Reading the southern bee keepers mantra from the BBKA magazine I always thought I was doing something wrong. Its not us, its their southern biased reporting that fails to provide a national view point for a national magazine and so makes you question your ability. 40lbs of honey is a good return in our local area. 2012 I got 8lbs, 2015 & 2016 some made 60lbs + the heather harvest. Best I have had was 80lbs runny + 95lbs heather which was last year from one colony. I don't have a single full super yet this year. I am now experimenting with poly hives and the results are looking very positive. Its the only way forward I can see to mitigate the dreadful springs we have to endure here. Although the whole countryside can be brimming with flowers its either too cold for nectar, to cold and windy to fly or too wet, windy and cold for anything. This year although May has been fantastic weather my records show that my colonies were bigger 14th March 2017 than they were on 16th May 2018. On a more positive note for me, I collected a swarm last year that has been foraging around 4C lower temps then the rest of my bees so I am going to breed from that colony and see how they progress.

I do hope I have helped to ease your mind a bit.

Cheers, Mick.

Thank you Mick you have hit the nail on the head with that good detailed reply.
Funny enough i live in Hartlepool on the outskirts of Owton Manor and it is a touch warmer here than where i have my bees.
My hives are at my lady friends near Alnwick Town near a little Village called Lesbury which is less than one mile from the sea which you can actually see when we are in the garden.
My plan for next year is to try and locate two or three of the more productive hives somewhere nearer to Hartlepool and see if the slightly warmer temperature with less sea breeze makes any difference.
Cheers
Steve.

P.s i started using Poly Hives last summer.

 

[Millet]

I still think we need to experiment with different strains of bees in your area Mick although I suspect Millet has answered the question as he has some of my queens plus the cold coastal weather.

It has got to be the location N ..all the hives are bursting with bees especially the Danish so i plan on making a few more nucs from them this year and moving them further inland.

 

[Millet]

I'm wondering if your proximity to the North Sea could result in higher than normal salt levels on the available forage? Winds could pick up spray and carry it inland some distance. Only thinking out loud
Apart from a couple of strong hive the rest have been slow to get going in my apiary this year. The better weather over the last couple of weeks has created a step change and suddenly there's brood aplenty due to emerge.

That thinking out loud John could be the answer, a lot of the mornings there is sea fret till the sun gets up in the sky.

 

[Ely]

WHO are the members on here who have good success with honey yields on the North East Coast.

When i Say North East i am around half a mile away from the sea, loads of forage but it just does not seem to happen, am i doing something wrong or is the cold misty wind a problem..i have bees from stock that stack supers up inland but here they are struggling to fill one super, i don't want to contradict myself but they where onto a second super but that has stopped and they are back onto one, osr still in flow also but cold (coat weather) .

Does me think move the bees inland.. because that is what i am thinking as this is becoming hard work for no gain.

Are you concentrating on building big colonies? It is usually the reason for poor yields. It is still something I am trying to improve myself. It can be hampered by lost swarms in the previous season if not in the current. Poor queens can contribute to poor yield too. Lack of forage is an obvious factor too. If it is your climate, maybe you could try using Scottish bred bees as they may not be quite as nesh

 

[Millet]

Are you concentrating on building big colonies? It is usually the reason for poor yields. It is still something I am trying to improve myself. It can be hampered by lost swarms in the previous season if not in the current. Poor queens can contribute to poor yield too.

No they seem to be doing that all by themselves, resulting in far too many bees to fit in a single brood box and two supers so they require a second brood box which is half full of bees, the Queens are from very good stock and the same Queens further inland have filled three supers.

 

[Beefriendly]

Are you concentrating on building big colonies? It is usually the reason for poor yields.

Not sure I see where you are going here. Big colonies equates to big yields, assuming there is forage available. This was shown many years ago by Farrer.
It went something like this:-
1x Bees in one hive = 1x Yield
2x Bees in one hive = 3x yield.

Paper is available to read.
https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/IND43969007/PDF

More recent work confirms the same.
Relationship between Population Size and Productivity of Honey Bee Colonies 2013
https://scialert.net/fulltextmobile/?doi=je.2013.163.169

 

[madasafish]

Not sure I see where you are going here. Big colonies equates to big yields, assuming there is forage available. This was shown many years ago by Farrer.
It went something like this:-
1x Bees in one hive = 1x Yield
2x Bees in one hive = 3x yield.

Paper is available to read.
https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/IND43969007/PDF

More recent work confirms the same.
Relationship between Population Size and Productivity of Honey Bee Colonies 2013
https://scialert.net/fulltextmobile/?doi=je.2013.163.169

I suspect Ely means the exact opposite of what you took as his meaning (the perils of the internet).
If you don't concentrate on big colonies, you don't get big yields is I suspect what he meant - hence him asking if Millet tried to build up big colonies..

Millet's anwer I think says it all.. brood and a half - National - is by most standards NOT a big colony. I run jumbo langs and anything less than 9 full frames of BIAS means a small colony and small yields. (and that equates in terms of bees to effectively National double brood). And if you run wood rather than poly and they don't have eggs in the outer combs until mid summer, they will not build up quickly - in a cold environment.

I too have one colony which starts foraging early and finishes late.. and am breeding from it to see if the offspring repeat. (Responsible for half last year's honey)

 

[Ely]

I suspect Ely means the exact opposite of what you took as his meaning (the perils of the internet).
If you don't concentrate on big colonies, you don't get big yields is I suspect what he meant - hence him asking if Millet tried to build up big colonies..

Millet's anwer I think says it all.. brood and a half - National - is by most standards NOT a big colony. I run jumbo langs and anything less than 9 full frames of BIAS means a small colony and small yields. (and that equates in terms of bees to effectively National double brood). And if you run wood rather than poly and they don't have eggs in the outer combs until mid summer, they will not build up quickly - in a cold environment.

I too have one colony which starts foraging early and finishes late.. and am breeding from it to see if the offspring repeat. (Responsible for half last year's honey)

You got it. I could have been clearer

 

[mickbees23]

I for one would be interested to see how your 'swarm' colony (s) stack up against your usual bees. Not just foraging behaviour but aggressive, disease, and swarming tendency.

So far my swarm colony ( which was my smallest colony end of 2017 ) is on double national brood boxes with 9 frames of almost all sealed brood in the bottom box and 7 frames in the 2nd of eggs and larvae which was all foundation 6 days ago, the rest they have drawn out and are filling with nectar and capped honey as well as 3/4 in the super. If they moved it up I would have at least one super full..LOL. As far as aggressiveness goes its 5 feet from my back door and you wouldn't know it was there, bees are a treat to handle and I look under the crown board with no veil or smoke. Disease, it looks very healthy so far and no queen cells at all yet, but to be fair none of my other colonies have either this year. So swarminess, only time will tell but most of the bees in my local area are annual swarmers, not something that bothers me too much as long as I carry out A/S procedures in time.

It will be interesting to see how they do over a full season.

Cheers, Mick.

 

[Beefriendly]

You got it. I could have been clearer

No problems, I thought it sounded a bit strange.

 

[Millet]

This was taken in 2015 but that is where my colonies are you can see the sea in the distance, it has perfect forage but in a wrong part of the country.

 

[Ely]

I reckon you’ll do alright if you can get your colonies big enough

 

[Millet]

I reckon you’ll do alright if you can get your colonies big enough

The Queens job is to get them big enough, other than that i can not help them, let us see what the thistle flow brings me after July.. ... it might make me happy after a slow start.
Thank You
Steve.

 

[madasafish]

If I recall you ended up with 40kg hives prior to winter. In spring, you could have ended up with lots of honey stores, reducing the space for queen to lay. I had to remove some honey frames tofix that.

Did you have that problem?