"Native"

[B+.]

I have seen the word "native" used in many conversations so, I finally got around to looking up the Oxford English dictionary definition (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/native).

The most useful version appears to be:

"Associated with the place or circumstances of a person's birth."

If we apply this to honeybees, any bee that is born here is "native".

 

[For want of a better word]

How about using ENDEMIC.... as a noun of course, may prevent some confusion... however 2. below may prove to produce even more confusion and discussion, which may become heated!!!

endemic
ɛnˈdɛmɪk/
adjective
adjective: endemic

1.
(of a disease or condition) regularly found among particular people or in a certain area.
"complacency is endemic in industry today"
(of an area) in which a particular disease is regularly found.
"the persistence of infection on pastures in endemic areas"
2.
(of a plant or animal) native or restricted to a certain place.
"a marsupial endemic to north-eastern Australia"

noun
noun: endemic; plural noun: endemics

1.
an endemic plant or animal.
"there are three types of island endemics"

Enjoy

Yeghes da

 

[mbc]

How about using ENDEMIC.... as a noun of course, may prevent some confusion... however 2. below may prove to produce even more confusion and discussion, which may become heated!!!

endemic
ɛnˈdɛmɪk/
adjective
adjective: endemic

1.
(of a disease or condition) regularly found among particular people or in a certain area.
"complacency is endemic in industry today"
(of an area) in which a particular disease is regularly found.
"the persistence of infection on pastures in endemic areas"
2.
(of a plant or animal) native or restricted to a certain place.
"a marsupial endemic to north-eastern Australia"

noun
noun: endemic; plural noun: endemics

1.
an endemic plant or animal.
"there are three types of island endemics"

Enjoy

Yeghes da

The term in the endemic language of much of these islands would be "cynhenid" which is the term I like to use for my bees

 

[B+.]

How about using ENDEMIC....

2.
(of a plant or animal) native or restricted to a certain place.
"a marsupial endemic to north-eastern Australia"

Interesting alternative.
Both words attempt to use the origin of the entity but, at least, "endemic" attempts to restrict the scope to a place.
The problem is, neither word helps because people (and other organisms) move around.

e.g. We call Vespa velutina a "non-native species" but, if it became established, queens born in this country would be native to the UK. Eventually, their range would include this country, just as it now includes large portions of Europe. That is, the words only apply at a fixed point in time.

 

[Finman]

.
Native becomes clearer if we think about Finland. We has never had natural mellifera bees. They are all imported during last 100 years.

Some think that black bee was original in Finland, but it is not much older than other races.

All are imported and no pain to think natives.

Carniolan bees were imported since 1990 in large scale.
Mite killed black bees during 1990-2000.

90% out of bees are now Italians.

 

[user 6228]

native species are deemed to be those that established themselves the UK in the period when the forested land bridge to Europe existed "Doggerland". Anything after that is deemed to be "introduced"

 

[Gaz1]

i see 'native' as anything that was there before human intervention. I don't count humans as we have the ability to settle anywhere so can't really say we are native to anywhere or are we native to everywhere?

 

[For want of a better word]

i see 'native' as anything that was there before human intervention. I don't count humans as we have the ability to settle anywhere so can't really say we are native to anywhere or are we native to everywhere?

Perhaps we are native to the planet Earth... but then what about the Pod people from the planet Plob who settled on Earth eons ago?

Yeghes da

 

[ShinySideUp]

My personal opinion about 'native' is that if something is considered amongst thinking people to be 'native' to the country then it is and if not, then it is invasive or non-native, i.e. it is largely subjective.

People might think of the wild rabbit as 'native' but Japanese Notweed as non-native that's because in general, we like rabbits but we don't like notweed. We like fallow deer but we don't like false widow spiders and so...

...we like bees but we don't like Asian hornets; and therein lies a loose definition of 'native'.

So what is really 'native'? Modern man? perhaps not.

From The Daily Telegraph.

Top ten invasive species

1. House mouse – Brought over unnoticed by Neolithic man, the first records are from around 1,000 BC

2. Rats – Although originally from the steppes of Central Asia, rats spread over Europe quickly arriving on ships in Britain during the Saxon period.

3. Rabbit – The Romans first brought rabbits to Britain but they were not established in the wild until the mid to late 12th Century.

4. Goldfish – Samuel Pepys was the first person to write about Asian goldfish in Britain in 1655.

5. Muntjac deer – Brought in from China in 1838 by the 11th Duke of Bedford and soon escaped into the wild.

6. Parakeets – Despite rumours they escaped from film studios during the filming of the African Queen, ring-necked parakeets actually arrived from India much earlier in 1855.

7. Red-necked wallaby – Escaped from private collections as early as 1865 and soon became established in the wild.

8. Grey squirrel – Introduced from America in 1876 and released by landowners in England.

9. American mink –First imported to fur farms in Britain from Canada and Alaska in 1929.

10. Red-eared terrapin – A popular pet during the 1980s due to the ‘Ninja Turtle’ phase that escaped into the wild.

 

[B+.]

My personal opinion about 'native' is that if something is considered amongst thinking people to be 'native' to the country then it is and if not, then it is invasive or non-native, i.e. it is largely subjective.

Actually, this isn't what the word means. The dictionary definition (which I posted earlier) defines it as the place of birth. Its not subjective at all.

 

[For want of a better word]

Nettles.... brought in by the Romans?

'orrible things!

Yeghes da

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

native species are deemed to be those that established themselves the UK in the period when the forested land bridge to Europe existed "Doggerland". Anything after that is deemed to be "introduced"

That'll bugger up UKIP then - most belong to the non native strain

 

[B+.]

That'll bugger up UKIP then - most belong to the non native strain

I have my doubts about some of them ;-)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have my doubts about some of them ;-)

I doubt some are even human!!

 

[ShinySideUp]

Actually, this isn't what the word means. The dictionary definition (which I posted earlier) defines it as the place of birth. Its not subjective at all.

The use of 'native' in the context of this thread IS subjective. If one uses the primary dictionary definition then almost everything, everywhere is native to the place in which it resides and largely makes the word itself redundant.

Using your argument, let's say I go to Africa and bring in a species of insect (we'll call the Large African Mealy Fly) that is laden with eggs. The moment I arrive back in the UK, the mealy fly's eggs hatch and you will now say that the Large African Mealy Fly is now native to the UK? Hmmm, I expect there a few entomologists that will disagree with you.

 

[B+.]

Using your argument, let's say I go to Africa and bring in a species of insect (we'll call the Large African Mealy Fly) that is laden with eggs. The moment I arrive back in the UK, the mealy fly's eggs hatch and you will now say that the Large African Mealy Fly is now native to the UK? Hmmm, I expect there a few entomologists that will disagree with you.

According to the definition, those individuals (i.e. the sample) would be, but the species (i.e. those members of the population that weren't born here) wouldn't.

 

[B+.]

The use of 'native' in the context of this thread IS subjective. If one uses the primary dictionary definition then almost everything, everywhere is native to the place in which it resides and largely makes the word itself redundant.

Not quite.
I was born on Tyneside. That makes me a native "Geordie". However, my children were all born at Milton Keynes hospital (Buckinghamshire). We all live in Bedfordshire. That doesn't make me, or my children, native to Bedfordshire even though they have lived in this county all of their lives. They just happened to be born in Buckinghamshire as that was the nearest/ best hospital at the time.
The important part of the definition is where you were born

 

[JohnRoss]

Native in the ecological sense Is very well defined and understood. It refers to species that have gotten here on their own accord ie without the intervention of man. So Birds like the magpie which arrived in Ireland in the 1700's and much more recently the little egret 1990's are native, and in An Irish context tress like sycamore and beech which are here much longer are not. Even red deer which were long thought to be native here, recent dna analysis has shown are not, they were introduced by People in the Iron age.

In the context of the honey bee, in an Irish context the current understanding is that they are not native, they were brought here by monks in the 5th century.

We have lots of species which were native but have since been re-introduced. Such as scots pine and the red squirrel.

 

[B+.]

Native in the ecological sense Is very well defined and understood.

You wouldn't have a reference for that would you?
The OED definition says nothing about "assistance" given by man (or any other transport mechanism).
Your interpretation implies that there must have been a time when the species didn't exist, or evolve, there. Consequently, it may have migrated. This seems at odds with the OED definition to me because, if it migrated, it can't have been born there so can't be "native".

 

[For want of a better word]

The use of 'native' in the context of this thread IS subjective. If one uses the primary dictionary definition then almost everything, everywhere is native to the place in which it resides and largely makes the word itself redundant.

Using your argument, let's say I go to Africa and bring in a species of insect (we'll call the Large African Mealy Fly) that is laden with eggs. The moment I arrive back in the UK, the mealy fly's eggs hatch and you will now say that the Large African Mealy Fly is now native to the UK? Hmmm, I expect there a few entomologists that will disagree with you.

Hope that is not going to be another pest that our poor bees will have to deal with!

Yeghes da