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Nationwide abandoned hives.

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Pembroke 

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snip.... That said, I know of 2 feral colonies - one in a tree and one in a building. How and by who would these be registered?
As far as I know the answer to that is no one. I'd guess they are considered to be wild bees although it could be argued that the owner of the building could register the one they have but I'm not sure the bee inspectors would necessarily know what to do it they ever turned up to it as presumably it will be full of wild comb and not inspectable.

All I can say is that our regional bee inspector used to ask all associations for a list of their members to aid his inspecting hives (not sure he still does now that GDPR gets in the way) so he would get to hear about even those who don't register but are members. As I'm sure you're aware they don't inspect every hive every year as there simply isn't time. If you want more detailed answers can I suggest you contact your local regional bee inspector? Beebase says his email address is: peter.davies@apha.gov.uk
 

Pembroke 

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It's amazing that there is no requirement to register hives given DEFRA counts them as livestock and I believe are considered more important than chicken to our economy!
I was told by our local regional bee inspector recently that had we remained in the EU compulsory registration was coming in a few years time but it's fallen though for the moment.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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I'd guess they are considered to be wild bees
As Tom Seeley would say - all bees are wild, whether in hives or hollow trees.
We are no closer to domesticating them now as we were a few millenia ago
 

Hachi 

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Damn! A lot more than I ever thought I'd have
Before we all start charging round the countryside trying to identify abandoned hives, I for one couldn't identify one with any real or logical certainty, lets keep at the forefront of our minds a few important factors:

1. Everything apart from the air you breath has a legal owner.
2. Some beeks and beefarmers kit is knocking on a century old so is looking completely knackered but so what?
3. Based on the above how on earth would a national database of alleged abandoned hives work?

I've been at it a while now and never come across any, came close once but they weren't abandoned after all.
 
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35 this winter
Before we all start charging round the countryside trying to identify abandoned hives, I for one couldn't identify one with any real or logical certainty, lets keep at the forefront of our minds a few important factors:

1. Everything apart from the air you breath has a legal owner.
2. Some beeks and beefarmers kit is knocking on a century old so is looking completely knackered but so what?
3. Based on the above how on earth would a national database of alleged abandoned hives work?

I've been at it a while now and never come across any, came close once but they weren't abandoned after all.
Before we all start charging round the countryside trying to identify abandoned hives, I for one couldn't identify one with any real or logical certainty, lets keep at the forefront of our minds a few important factors:

1. Everything apart from the air you breath has a legal owner.
2. Some beeks and beefarmers kit is knocking on a century old so is looking completely knackered but so what?
3. Based on the above how on earth would a national database of alleged abandoned hives work?

I've been at it a while now and never come across any, came close once but they weren't abandoned after all.
Most beefarmers are registered or are known to most.
1.Maybe if this date base was available for association members it would be a start.
2. As I've found on all three occasions I've been informed from the above.
3.it could be like our swarm collectors list of contacts. The public have and will report hives in different places or tell some one who they know is a beekeeper.
But without putting it out there in the first place we will just keep on with diseases, mite bombs, etc etc...
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Too many - but not nearly enough
Before we all start charging round the countryside trying to identify abandoned hives, I for one couldn't identify one with any real or logical certainty, lets keep at the forefront of our minds a few important factors:

1. Everything apart from the air you breath has a legal owner.
2. Some beeks and beefarmers kit is knocking on a century old so is looking completely knackered but so what?
3. Based on the above how on earth would a national database of alleged abandoned hives work?

I've been at it a while now and never come across any, came close once but they weren't abandoned after all.
Exactly - I know of one beek whose hives are in such a sorry state you'd never believe that bees could live in there. Years ago when there was a tidy up of our association apiary all the old rubbish lying around was put in a big pile and prepared for the match, then, one of the old timers who turned up a bit late shouted 'Oi! what are you doing with my my spare kit!?
Some time ago, a member of our hunt started chatting to me and mentioned there were two hives abandoned on one of his fields, the people who had bought the old village school and refurbished it apparently put them there but they divorced and both moved away. After a few enquiries it transpired that the distaff side of the pair had just moved to the market town a few miles away and still owned the schoolhouse which she'd rented out, she was a solicitor, fully aware of the bees and claimed ownership, but was just 'too busy' to inspect them regularly.
 

Hachi 

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Damn! A lot more than I ever thought I'd have
Most beefarmers are registered or are known to most.
1.Maybe if this date base was available for association members it would be a start.
2. As I've found on all three occasions I've been informed from the above.
3.it could be like our swarm collectors list of contacts. The public have and will report hives in different places or tell some one who they know is a beekeeper.
But without putting it out there in the first place we will just keep on with diseases, mite bombs, etc etc...
Sorry but most of the association memberships I have been in didn't know they had beefarmers in their congregation. Furthermore the beefarmer list is known but unto themselves and I strongly doubt anyone knows their apiary sites in sufficient detail for security concerns if nothing else.
Wrt to your point re disease, mite bombs etc, don't you think it a good idea we beeks clean up our act first? I know plenty of beeks who don't treat for anything but nothing is done about them and they're certainly not on a database.
I suppose as its your idea, why don't you go to your club and try it? You could pin your excel spreadsheet to the noticeboard asking people to fill it our where there are definitive abandoned hives that they know about. Every acorn and all that :)
 

MrGroundControl 

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the fishing gear I have isn't of that ilk, in fact one of my rods is older than me, it was my grandfathers, split cane & a wooden reel with brass fittings, yes I do still use them occasionally.
but the shooting is another story, if she knew the prices of some of my rifles I'd be in serious bother, lol
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Too many - but not nearly enough
Most beefarmers are registered or are known to most.
1.Maybe if this date base was available for association members it would be a start.
2. As I've found on all three occasions I've been informed from the above.
3.it could be like our swarm collectors list of contacts. The public have and will report hives in different places or tell some one who they know is a beekeeper.
But without putting it out there in the first place we will just keep on with diseases, mite bombs, etc etc...
So you're going to totally ignore GDPR and other data protection regulations and just plaster everyone's private details all over the web?
 
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So you're going to totally ignore GDPR and other data protection regulations and just plaster everyone's private details all over the web?
Im doing nowt but trying to get some ideas Out there.
If there stupid blow me down!
Any suggestions?
What's happened to talking properly. Old school even, one might say.
 
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steve1958 

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It will never happen.
All the time there is a possibility of Hive thefts many Beekeepers will keep their own hive whereabouts a secret, even from Bee inspectors.
I have often wondered when it comes to colony numbers what the true figure is.
We only know the numbers of those declared.
 

jool 

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Worse is the beekeeper who throws 4 supers on in march and takes them off in august. 2 visits a year and the rest of us have to deal with the swarms and efb in the area. That's not abandoned just reckless.
 

Anduril 

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It will never happen.
All the time there is a possibility of Hive thefts many Beekeepers will keep their own hive whereabouts a secret, even from Bee inspectors.
I have often wondered when it comes to colony numbers what the true figure is.
We only know the numbers of those declared.
In part to the true figures, this may also be down to the BDI (Bee Disease Insurance). If you have more hives than you declare for the insurance, then in the event you have AFB or EFB, your insurance is null and void. If you want to produce more to safeguard against winter losses, then the BDI acts as a penalty.
 

madasafish 

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Worse is the beekeeper who throws 4 supers on in march and takes them off in august. 2 visits a year and the rest of us have to deal with the swarms and efb in the area. That's not abandoned just reckless.
One Bee Inspector spent a whole evening explaining to our Association meeting how he visited his hives twice a year. Period. He also made comments on unrecorded imports of bees and queens which if true were nothing short of scandalous as he did nothing to alert the authorities.


Any suggestion all hives will be recorded within the UK within the next decade is risible. There will be no money to fund it (and lots of other things more pressing as well). As the current records are dismal, the job of bringing them up to date is virtually impossible with current resources.
 

Drewdrew 

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The last lot of hives I purchased were 'abandoned'.

They hadn't been touched for 2 to 3 years. The previous owner was too old and frail to get up to them, but he knew where they were, and what was there. Family had no interest in them. He wasn't in the local association (can't say I blame him, they act like its 1954), and he didn't list them on beebase.

Had someone tried to list them as abandoned, or muscle in and take them, he wouldn't have known. They were hidden away on private land. However, if this had happened, it would probably have led to a police report for theft. As this country doesn't have a 'finders keepers' law, anyone who removes anything without the owners permission is committing theft. Just because something looks abandoned, you don't always know the back story.
 

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