National nuc to 14x12 brood

[hexadecimal]

I have a standard national nuc coming and would ideally like to run on 14x12 brood.

My plan is basically a Bailey change but just thought I'd ask for suggestions or alternatives to my plan.

Using a standard national brood box I have access to I will place the nuc frames in the center and dummy either side and pack it out (sack or insulating foam that i have access to).

The 14x12 brood box fitted with frames and foundation (no drawn frames available) will go on top of this then the crown board and feeder.

After a couple of weeks if the comb has been pulled out sufficiently will ensure that the queen is in the upper box before dropping a QE under the 14x12.

Once any brood has emerged from the standard frames I will then look to remove the box just leaving the 14x12.

Any possible improvements/alternatives?

Possibly pull the standard frame with the queen on and place it in the 14x12 box with a QE under straight off, opposed to let them pull some comb first and just deal with any additional comb they attach to the bottom of the shorter frame?

Cheers for any thoughts

Hex

 

[birdsandbees]

if it were me I'd move the queen up on a frame into your 12 x 14 box QE under and replace that frame at a later date by working it to the edge, if not then the queen will continue to lay in the bottom frames and they will be slower to move up and you will still have BIAS in the bottom frames.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

That's if you can find the queen......

 

[birdsandbees]

That's if you can find the queen......

shouldn't be too hard in a Nuc

 

[hexadecimal]

if it were me I'd move the queen up on a frame into your 12 x 14 box QE under and replace that frame at a later date by working it to the edge, if not then the queen will continue to lay in the bottom frames and they will be slower to move up and you will still have BIAS in the bottom frames.

Many thanks, guess thats the plan then.

 

[pargyle]

Many thanks, guess thats the plan then.

No ... That's far too complicated.

Just put the national frames from the Nuc into the 14 x 12 brood box, the bees will add a bit of comb to the bottom of the frames but it's not a problem. Put a 14 x 12 frame with foundation (if you are going to use foundation) in front next to the entrance, then the 5 frames from your Nuc, then another frame of foundation which will then leave a bit of space in the 14 x 12 at the rear of the box. Fill that space with some insulation. Check after a week and if they have drawn out the new frames add another couple at the rear.

As the colony gets established you can work the 'old' frames from the Nuc out towards the back of the hive and substitute new frames on the edge of the brood area. By the end of the season they will either be frames ready for winter stores or they will be 'spare brood frames' - always useful.

As the wax hardens the bits of free comb on the bottom of the frames will be perfectly stable and you will find that it will probably be drone brood it's used for - which has a number of advantages.

The bees will prefer this and it will save them building all new comb in their first season.

 

[domino]

No ... That's far too complicated.

Just put the national frames from the Nuc into the 14 x 12 brood box, the bees will add a bit of comb to the bottom of the frames but it's not a problem..

Best plan.

 

[Briarfield]

I used extenders. The bees didn't really like going below the bottom bar.

The problem with just letting them draw comb is that they will draw lots of drone brood with its consequential risk of varroa.

 

[pargyle]

The presence of drones does not increase the load of varroa .. indeed, if you wish, you wait until the drone brood below the frame is capped and then uncap the cells - it will give you a very good idea of the varroa load and at the same time - reduce the varroa load. Or you can just cut the free comb off along with the drone brood and you can go and inspect the contents on the kitchen table.

I really don't see that as a bad thing ...

 

[pargyle]

I used extenders. The bees didn't really like going below the bottom bar.

The problem with just letting them draw comb is that they will draw lots of drone brood with its consequential risk of varroa.

Looks to me like they have put some drone brood at the bottom of the frame anyway ...

I'm not a fan of those extenders, they are expensive - for what they cost you can buy two new 14 x 12 frames in the sales ... and you have to fiddle about to get the foundation into that small extra bit of frame.

 

[Briarfield]

Looks to me like they have put some drone brood at the bottom of the frame anyway ...



I'm not a fan of those extenders, they are expensive - for what they cost you can buy two new 14 x 12 frames in the sales ... and you have to fiddle about to get the foundation into that small extra bit of frame.

That's my point. A waste of time.

The drone brood was IIRC pre extenders.

 

[hexadecimal]

Just put the national frames from the Nuc into the 14 x 12 brood box, the bees will add a bit of comb to the bottom of the frames but it's not a problem. Put a 14 x 12 frame with foundation (if you are going to use foundation) in front next to the entrance, then the 5 frames from your Nuc, then another frame of foundation which will then leave a bit of space in the 14 x 12 at the rear of the box. Fill that space with some insulation. Check after a week and if they have drawn out the new frames add another couple at the rear.

For whatever reason I hadn't thought about running them "warm way" round, I do like the thought of them not having to pull as much comb initially and not having a double brood boxes for a period.

Thank you

 

[pargyle]

For whatever reason I hadn't thought about running them "warm way" round, I do like the thought of them not having to pull as much comb initially and not having a double brood boxes for a period.

Thank you

You can do it just the same cold way ... just start with the nuc frames in the middle and add frames either side - use two dummiy boards - one at either side and a slab of insulation in the space outside the dummy board (or divider if you wish to call it that). I prefer warm way in the polys as I tend to stand behind the hives and it's a very natural lift with the frame ends either side in front of you but I know plenty of people who are equally happy working from the side. My Long Deep Hive has the frames the other way and you soon get used to it. Try both ways over the season and see which you like.