My mating hives.

[user 6228]

let me alarm you a little ... to stay at the same heat loss per bee, you need to increase the insulation in inversion proportion to the linear dimension of the hive (~cube root of the volume)
A full colony of say a 1Kg and a mating group of 100g (1 frame of bees) then you need insulation ~2 times thicker to be at the same heat loss per bee.(assuming same number of bees per unit volume). That means 100mm kingspan

 

[Finman]

let me alarm you a little
That means 100mm kingspan

You are grazy with your calculations.

I have made 3 frame mating nucs from 30 mm styrofoam board, and they are spended. I use as roof the same board.

Mating nucs work during warmest summer time and 10 cm wall is madness.

One frame mating nucs works too, but when the queen starts to lay, you are in trouple in few days. 3 frame nuc works during first brood cycle.

Then I usually join those mating hives when I change queens in big hives.

Then pile those 3+3 nucs. However they are small after joining.

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[charlievictorbravo]

let me alarm you a little ... to stay at the same heat loss per bee, you need to increase the insulation in inversion proportion to the linear dimension of the hive (~cube root of the volume)
A full colony of say a 1Kg and a mating group of 100g (1 frame of bees) then you need insulation ~2 times thicker to be at the same heat loss per bee.(assuming same number of bees per unit volume). That means 100mm kingspan

The walls are 20mm softwood and the roof is 25mm Kingspan, 10mm plywood and 5mm aluminium composite board, the whole covered to black waterproof tape (I wasn't sure that my method of folding the composite board was secure - I'd broken a couple of folds on test pieces). I also intend to add a 6mm clear polycarbonate crown board.
What and where would you suggest additional insulation should be used, Derek, bearing this item is only intended to be used in the summer?

CVB

 

[user 6228]

The walls are 20mm softwood and the roof is 25mm Kingspan, 10mm plywood and 5mm aluminium composite board, the whole covered to black waterproof tape (I wasn't sure that my method of folding the composite board was secure - I'd broken a couple of folds on test pieces). I also intend to add a 6mm clear polycarbonate crown board.
What and where would you suggest additional insulation should be used, Derek, bearing this item is only intended to be used in the summer?

CVB

it depends on the insulated surface area and the heat generating capacity of your bees.(how many you put in there ). If the bees are as crowded as a normal hive, and you are only putting in one tenth of the bees , you need to double (actually 2.15 times for identical geometry). So if your normal is ordinary poly 40mm thick then you should have 80mm polystyrene. My normal is 50mm kingspan so a breeding nuc for me would be 100mm kingspan. Contact Roguedrone. He has done this, he used 140mm kingspan in winter. its all about surface area to volume ratios. I can advise you on the thermal engineering, if you want your queen to be as cosy as in your hive double the level of insulation of the big hive that what the physics says...


for the same power density in both hive and Qbox then the following equation is true.
Surface Area of hive /(volume of hive * insulation thickness hive) = Surface Area of Qbox/(vol of Qbox * ins thickness Qbox)



Craft of bee keeping ? not me

 

[blackcavebees]

Mating nucs are not the same as full hives, there are for use during the summer and may only have bees in them for 5-6 weeks at a time (I know they may be used a second or third time during the season). They are there for getting a queen mated and laying. There are really an artificial setup which is why the bees can get stressed and suffer from nosema. too much heat is bad as well as 1 hour in the midday sun and you'll soon find them absconded. Not convinced of the benefits of 100mm kingspan in a mating nuc. I'm all for a bit of insulation, but I live on a rather exposed site and it is generally a lot colder and wetter (and windy) than you guys down south. I would rather have bees that can adapt to a bit colder (within reason) or ship them south or let them die off.

That said, I do appreciate derekm's background and passion for insulation

 

[Finman]

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My mating nuc strategy

Queen cell rearing is very easy, because I rear queen in swarming hive, which allready has queen cells. I change the larvae.

First step is to put bees into the nuc. One frame of bees enough. It takes 10 days before the queen start to lay.

10 nucs needs 10 frame bees. When queens start to lay, nucs need more bees that queen can lay to all 3 frames. Original bees are old and the nucs need 30 frames of bees. It is much. Almost one hive.

30 frames bees is off from honey yield. Own queens are not free.

3 boxes bees can forage 80 kg honey. That is the price.
When founded, I can put into nucs second round of virgins or queen cells.

.The price is a reason why beekeeprs use tiny mating nucs.


I move nucs to another yard that workers do not return to their original home.
I put them into several places that they get drones from different hives.


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[Finman]

too much heat is bad as well as 1 hour in the midday sun and you'll soon find them absconded.

During my 45 queen rearing years I have never seen mating nuc absconding.

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[blackcavebees]

During my 45 queen rearing years I have never seen mating nuc absconding.

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In my two years queen rearing I have, from apideas

 

[Finman]

Small colonies swarm from too tight places. It is not absconding.
Apidea is Very Small and that is why I use 3 frame nucs.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

..... for the same power density in both hive and Qbox then the following equation is true.
Surface Area of hive /(volume of hive * insulation thickness hive) = Surface Area of Qbox/(vol of Qbox * ins thickness Qbox)

Craft of bee keeping ? not me

Well, Derek, I've done the maths and it concludes I need 167mm of insulation for my mating hive. Whilst I generally agree that insulation is a good and necessary addition to any hive, 167mm seems a bit excessive!

Darren does not use insulation and he has used this mating hive successfully in the north of Ireland for a couple of years, so as a compromise, and as I have some 100mm Kingspan, I might go for a 100mm "hive cosy" for the mating hive. With 100mm added all round, it's going to end up as quite a lump.

CVB

 

[Dickydoo]

BigLongDarren

Can you repost the photos please apparently they were lost do to server change.

Dickydoo

 

[biglongdarren]

sorry for the delay in uploading the photos,hope they help you.
Darren

 

[Dickydoo]

thanks for the reup much appreciated

Dickydoo