My colony has swarmed

[wildrover]

I am still very new to this so please be patient! I had 2 colonies of bees earlier this year and they seemed to be settling in well. I positioned both hives facing up a gentle slope into my orchard (we live on a small holding). During the first few weeks the weather was not good so i fed them with fondant but once the weather improved they made themselves very busy. On the last few inspections i began to notice how different they were. Colony A was very gentle, I always saw the queen, lots of eggs and stores and I added a super 2 weeks ago which they are now filling well.
Colony B seemed more sluggish, less gentle, less eggs. When i inspected last Monday they were downright hostile and not suprisingly I found queen cells.
Today they swarmed. It was fascinating actually as I was weeding, the noise got louder and louder and then there was a large cloud of bees.
They are currently situated on a fence post on the edge of my veg bed!
I have the 2 polystyrene nuc boxes that i transported the bees in and plenty of brood frames so do i try to collect as many bees as possible from the fence post and try to shake them into the polynuc? Then what? Will the colony they left now be queenless or will one of those queen cells have hatched? Do i need to feed the old colony to help build it up again? Help gratefully recieved xxx

 

[Erichalfbee]

I am still very new to this so please be patient! I had 2 colonies of bees earlier this year and they seemed to be settling in well. I positioned both hives facing up a gentle slope into my orchard (we live on a small holding). During the first few weeks the weather was not good so i fed them with fondant but once the weather improved they made themselves very busy. On the last few inspections i began to notice how different they were. Colony A was very gentle, I always saw the queen, lots of eggs and stores and I added a super 2 weeks ago which they are now filling well.
Colony B seemed more sluggish, less gentle, less eggs. When i inspected last Monday they were downright hostile and not suprisingly I found queen cells.
Today they swarmed. It was fascinating actually as I was weeding, the noise got louder and louder and then there was a large cloud of bees.
They are currently situated on a fence post on the edge of my veg bed!
I have the 2 polystyrene nuc boxes that i transported the bees in and plenty of brood frames so do i try to collect as many bees as possible from the fence post and try to shake them into the polynuc? Then what? Will the colony they left now be queenless or will one of those queen cells have hatched? Do i need to feed the old colony to help build it up again? Help gratefully recieved xxx

Swarm. See if you can position the nuc box on the post and smoke the bees into it. They will need to go into a full size hive.
The swarmed hive.
open it up and search for a nice open queen cell where you can see a pool of royal jelly and a larva.
Mark the frame and be gentle with it. Put it back after checking it for any other queen cells.
Shake the bees off all the other frames and destroy the remaining queen cells.
Out the hive back together again snd look again in a week to find and remove any more queen cells they have made apart from your marked one
Leave alone for three weeks.
Those are the bare bones
Have you joined your local association/taken a course/ read any books on beekeeping?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Read this
https://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/There-Are-Queen-Cells-In-My-Hive-WBKA-WAG.pdf

 

[pargyle]

Sometimes you need to scoop the bees up to get them to go into your nuc ... a cupful at a time ... as you progress you may eventually see the queen if she was marked and once you get her into the Nuc you have a good chance that the rest will follow.

If they start to go in (and that's a wonder to watch in itself !) leave the nuc alongside the post until it gets dark and then move it to where you want to locate it ... if it's a big swarm you will need a full size hive for them.

It should not be necessary to feed what's left in the original hive - they should have stores in there - if you knock the queen cells down to one there will be a virgin emerging in due course and you need to be careful not to disturb them until she's been off on her mating flight - and if you get lucky you might see this event as well.

 

[wildrover]

Hi Dani, yes i did the course (possibly met you) at Lampeter but life sort of got in the way of me coming to meetings etc and then, as a nurse covid has kept me busy!!
I was just getting my confidence with these bees but have never even seen a swarm before let alone tried to deal with one.
So assuming i can get them to go into the polynuc, how long can they stay in there as i do not have another hive? Im assuming several days will be ok as they were ok when i transported them earlier in the year.

 

[pargyle]

Hi Dani, yes i did the course (possibly met you) at Lampeter but life sort of got in the way of me coming to meetings etc and then, as a nurse covid has kept me busy!!
I was just getting my confidence with these bees but have never even seen a swarm before let alone tried to deal with one.
So assuming i can get them to go into the polynuc, how long can they stay in there as i do not have another hive? Im assuming several days will be ok as they were ok when i transported them earlier in the year.

They will be OK for a week or so ...they will be drawing comb and the queen will be wanting to lay - you would be unlucky for them to swarm again (although if they are cramped for space it can happen that they abscond). If what is left in the hive they swarmed from is small you could move the bees out of that (just a cardboard box you can put the frames in whilst you sort things out) put the swarm into the full hive and site that away from its original site - then put the bees and five frames out of the original hive into your nuc and back on the site of the original hive. Bit of a faff but all you need is a cardboard box and a bit of time/patience.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi Dani, yes i did the course (possibly met you) at Lampeter but life sort of got in the way of me coming to meetings etc and then, as a nurse covid has kept me busy!!
I was just getting my confidence with these bees but have never even seen a swarm before let alone tried to deal with one.
So assuming i can get them to go into the polynuc, how long can they stay in there as i do not have another hive? Im assuming several days will be ok as they were ok when i transported them earlier in the year.

See if Allen can let you have an association hive.
if not I can let you have something if you PM me
Seeing a swarm is a wonderful thing.

 

[wildrover]

Thanks for all the advice. I set the nuc up on top of the post and between brushing and smoking they all congregated at the top of the post with nothing in the nuc. With a bit more encouragement i sort of scooped them into the nu, by which time it had started to rain. They all seemed to happily walk up the post towards the nuc but not into it which concerned me as i didn't see the queen either. I popped the lid on and

 

[wildrover]

Sorry, post sent as I was part way through!
I managed to scoop about 70% of bees into mix so I put the lid on and placed the nice beside the post. They seemed to go towards the entrance but are now just clustered there.
This morning there is a large clump of bees, probably the remaining 40% left on the post but there are no bees in the nuc. Do I assume that the bees I put into the nuc have taken off and have settled elsewhere or would they return to the original colony? I'll try to scoop this last cluster into the nuc in the hope that the queen is in amongst them.
In the colony that they swarmed from I found 1 uncapped queen cell which I left and 2 capped queen cells who h i destroyed. Weather is not good for bees today but the swarm seem very good tempered.
Thank you all so much for the support and advice

 

[enrico]

Sorry, post sent as I was part way through!
I managed to scoop about 70% of bees into mix so I put the lid on and placed the nice beside the post. They seemed to go towards the entrance but are now just clustered there.
This morning there is a large clump of bees, probably the remaining 40% left on the post but there are no bees in the nuc. Do I assume that the bees I put into the nuc have taken off and have settled elsewhere or would they return to the original colony? I'll try to scoop this last cluster into the nuc in the hope that the queen is in amongst them.
In the colony that they swarmed from I found 1 uncapped queen cell which I left and 2 capped queen cells who h i destroyed. Weather is not good for bees today but the swarm seem very good tempered.
Thank you all so much for the support and advice

Take the lid off the nuc box and take all the frames out. Turn it upside down and place it gently on top of the post. If you are lucky they will start to climb onto the walls and the roof when most of them are clinging on the. Turn it gently the right way and put the frames in and the roof on. Hold the nuc there and the others will probably follow in. A little smoke might help initially. The chances are the queen is still on the post.
E

 

[ericbeaumont]

Buy this: Haynes Bee Manual.

 

[Wilco]

I'd also advise with any swarm, put a queen excluder on the bottom of the hive (between brood box and entrance) or with the poly nuc set it to the queen excluder setting. It's not foolproof but reduces the risk of them all disappearing off again if they decide they've found somewhere better. I often also put frame of brood in with swarms too.

 

[wildrover]

Well i persuaded the remaining bees into the polynuc, i went off to do some jobs and when i went back a few hours later they'd all left. Feel very disheartened as i am not sure what i did wrong or what i could have done differently. I appreciate the advice for future reference and will keep an eye on the remaining bees in the colony that the swarm left from.
The gentle colony in hive A are just happy foraging away in the sunshine

 

[Erichalfbee]

Don’t worry you can’t keep them all. The important thing is to keep in top of inspections to prevent your other colony following suit and to make sure your swarmed colony doesn’t cast.

 

[hemo]

Whether you use a QX or not, if they want to go they will. Don't be fooled that a swarm given brood will stay.

 

[Gardenshed37]

Well i persuaded the remaining bees into the polynuc, i went off to do some jobs and when i went back a few hours later they'd all left. Feel very disheartened as i am not sure what i did wrong or what i could have done differently. I appreciate the advice for future reference and will keep an eye on the remaining bees in the colony that the swarm left from.
The gentle colony in hive A are just happy foraging away in the sunshine

Seriously, I have been keeping bees for 7 years, done the bbk courses, found and marked queens, helped rehive swarms and raised queens etc etc etc, this year I have had 2 of my 6 hives swarm, I have done everything diligently and still it happens, never get downhearted, keep going and it will get better, I’m lucky that mine always seem to go into a close apple tree, I captured a bad tempered swarm today and got badly stung which is really unusual, please don’t give up as it does take time, I would liken it to my carpentry apprenticeship I did when I was 16 and finished in 1981, that was four years long and I think it’s a good comparison, keep your spirits up! Cheers Simon

 

[enrico]

Well i persuaded the remaining bees into the polynuc, i went off to do some jobs and when i went back a few hours later they'd all left. Feel very disheartened as i am not sure what i did wrong or what i could have done differently. I appreciate the advice for future reference and will keep an eye on the remaining bees in the colony that the swarm left from.
The gentle colony in hive A are just happy foraging away in the sunshine

Remember, swarming is how bees reproduce. They will do all they can to see that through despite your best efforts to control it! It is nice to keep both parts of a swarm but we all fail. Many beekeepers who have out apiaries don't even know they have lost swarms! Chin up, you still have half of them!

 

[wildrover]

Thanks for all your encouragement. It's nice to know that I didn't necessarily do anything wrong and they might have just fancied a change of scene!
On a positive note they were very pleasant to be around and I almost got away without a sting. I walked the 3 minute journey from the field back to the house, took off my gloves, pulled my bee jacket over my head not noticing the bee stuck to it and got stung on my finger!! Removed the sting and tried tea tree oil on the sting and it worked wonders, no swelling and no itching. A positive ending

 

[Swarm]

I was shaking bees off combs today and my mind was preoccupied, which is never a good thing. Only when I had finished and started to leave did I see a gaping hole where my veil was flapping about, unzipped.
You win some, you lose some