Moving stores back to brood box

[AndreaW]

Going to do an inspection at the weekend but want to feed back my one super of sugar stores/honey to the bees before winter and apiguard.

If there is still lots of capped brood in my bb, can I still move the super above the crown board and do I bruise the cappings? Worried about doing this too early if there isn't enough room, not sure if they are still collecting nectar - I suppose I will know if all the super is full when I look!

Should I wait a bit until there is more room in the bb - won't know situation until I look at the weekend?

Thanks

Andrea

 

[enrico]

Personally I would wait a while and put the super under the brood box for the winter. That way they won't have top move anything and by spring they will have used the honey and moved on up into the brood and you just take the empty super off from under the brood. Don't leave your apiguard any later, the temps are beginning to drop and it needs warm weather to work well. If you want to put it on over the crown board then wait until varoa treatment finished otherwise it will taint the frames and you won't be able to use them for honey again!
E

 

[Winker]

i have a half filled super to feed back. I am now two weeks into the apiguard treatment. Once its done (two weeks time) i will feed back the honey before i do the main winter feed. They should clear it out within a few days.

And once the Apiguard treatment has finished there should be more room for stores as the queen should have been slowed down in laying by the apiguard treatment, thus freeing up some space for stores down stairs

 

[For want of a better word]

What sized frames what type hive?

How would frames get tainted with thymol?

Super with uncapped stores over or under the BB or above the crown board,............

So many different ideas, so many questions and so many different correct ways of doing things!!!!

 

[For want of a better word]

i have a half filled super to feed back. I am now two weeks into the apiguard treatment. Once its done (two weeks time) i will feed back the honey before i do the main winter feed. They should clear it out within a few days.

And once the Apiguard treatment has finished there should be more room for stores as the queen should have been slowed down in laying by the apiguard treatment, thus freeing up some space for stores down stairs

Do you take the super away before treating and put it under the hive, or above or below the crownboard,

One book I have stated that any super left on for winter feed below the hive would have dirty foundation / drawn comb, as all those dirty feet would have been walking accross it!!!!
Replacement of foundation and scrubbing of the frames and brood box in hot vinegar ? (Acetic acid) is essential

Hmmmmmmmmmmm... pickled oninion flavor honey??????????:

​

biggrinjester:

 

[oliver90owner]

Winker,

You said: 'there should be more room for stores as the queen should have been slowed down in laying'

I would suggest you don't concentrate too much on that. It is the bees which will have to survive the winter; I regard the stores as a secondary issue to bees. No point in having lots of stores at winter's end and no bees!

If you have bees they can be fed during the winter if short of stores.

The single most important description for wintering is a good strong healthy colony. 'Good' is the overall descriptive adjective; 'strong' means lots of bees; 'healthy' means very little varroa for all, and treated for nosema by some.

Not suggesting you are wrong in what you said in the post - just remember that thinking about your target (more bees?) may concentrate your efforts in the best direction.

RAB

 

[AndreaW]

So should I take the super off now and store it in black plastic sacks in the shed for 6 weeks whilst I put on the apiguard and also feed with a contact feeder or a ashworth whilst I treat for varroa?

Just worried about taking the super off now to avoid contamination (I'm assuming it would get contaminated under the BB) and leaving them with no food. I remember someone said I could feed at same time as treat for varroa. Should I use an Ashworth to ensure the vapours were over limited space - never used one before, only a contact feeder.

Thanks

Andrea

 

[Winker]

Winker,

You said: 'there should be more room for stores as the queen should have been slowed down in laying'

I would suggest you don't concentrate too much on that. It is the bees which will have to survive the winter; I regard the stores as a secondary issue to bees. No point in having lots of stores at winter's end and no bees!

If you have bees they can be fed during the winter if short of stores.

The single most important description for wintering is a good strong healthy colony. 'Good' is the overall descriptive adjective; 'strong' means lots of bees; 'healthy' means very little varroa for all, and treated for nosema by some.

Not suggesting you are wrong in what you said in the post - just remember that thinking about your target (more bees?) may concentrate your efforts in the best direction.

RAB

Your correct Rab, without enough bees to see the hive throgh the winter, is not good!

I doubt that is the case here. It sound like the OP queen is still laying for england. I have 3 hives doing the same, brood on 8 frames still (Wall to Wall). But I have loads and i mean loads of HB up and down the river next to me.

I am hopping my apigaurd treatment is going to slow down my queens, mainly cause i want them all in one national BB box and not in brood and a half over winter.

 

[Winker]

So should I take the super off now and store it in black plastic sacks in the shed for 6 weeks whilst I put on the apiguard and also feed with a contact feeder or a ashworth whilst I treat for varroa?

Just worried about taking the super off now to avoid contamination (I'm assuming it would get contaminated under the BB) and leaving them with no food. I remember someone said I could feed at same time as treat for varroa. Should I use an Ashworth to ensure the vapours were over limited space - never used one before, only a contact feeder.

Thanks

Andrea

I put mine above the crown board untill the teatment is done. Once the treatment is done, i will open the feeder hole in the crown board and hope they take it all into the BB for winter stores. Then i will do the winter feed after the Ivy has bloomed as we have loads of Ivy around here too just comming into bloom.

 

[enrico]

Andrea, sorry if I confused you. Yes there are loads of ways to do things!!!
I wouldn't worry too much about contamination of supers under BB but up to you. If you don't want to do that then I would remove the super while you treat. The smell of Apiguard or Api life is very strong and I wouldn't want it in supers that I use for honey I eat but again that is my preference. There is nothing wrong with putting it back on, on top of a crown board with a hole after treatment and see if they take the honey down. bruise if capped,
Hope this helps. Whatever you do the bees will do what they want with it! Best of luck and sorry if my thoughts are different to others. We all do what we find works best for us!
E

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Andrea, there's no need to 'feed back' the stores to the bees, they already have them! They need Apiguard treatment now. No problem with the stores as they will be consumed before next Spring....

A quick cut and paste of my scribblings from elsewhere.

"At the end of the season I prefer my colonies to go into winter with a full brood chamber of stores plus a super. If we leave the super over the brood chamber with a queen excluder we have several disadvantages:-

The queen may get left behind; that is below the queen excluder if the bees move upwards.
There is a large space to heat above the bees which is no good for spring build-up as they will have to work much harder to get the brood area up to the 35 degrees they need.
With an open mesh floor, the bees may get a little wind-blown.
Oxalic Acid treatment in the winter may be difficult as the bees will most likely be buried deep within the hive and not visible.



So this is what I do. Sometime in October – at the last inspection – I remove the super - full or part-full and place it on the hive open mesh floor and then put the brood chamber on top with NO queen excluder. The crown board goes onto the top of the brood chamber. Let’s consider what has been done. The bees are now at the top of the hive – the warmest part and they have plenty of stores to last the winter with a super of honey within their reach. With no queen excluder there is no restriction to the queen's movements. Usually the bees are clearly visible for oxalic acid treatment in winter when the crown board is taken off. Spring build-up will be easier. The super below brood chamber reduces the effects of wind around the bottom of the hive. On top of the crown-board I place some insulation. An inch of celotex or such-like will reduce the heat loss through the roof considerably and ensure that there are no cold-spots above the winter cluster where condensation might otherwise develop and drip down. Other insulation could be a layer or two of carpet or even an empty super filled with scrunched newspaper. They will all help conserve heat and with an open floor there is sufficient ventilation for the colony to give them oxygen and remove moist air. Anecdotal evidence is that the amount of fungus and mold in the hive is reduced in this way. Open mesh floors should be kept open and the mite-board only slid in when a mite count is being done. You may think that the bees need to be cozy inside but they give off quite a lot of water vapour and they are harmed by damp rather than cold. All my colonies have come through winter like this in the last two cold winters.

In the spring - at the first inspection which will usually need to be quite quick - the super can be removed from under the brood chamber. Generally the super has been empty of stores at this time. The hive can be operated for a short while with just the brood chamber (feeding may be required if light on stores but unlikely) and then the super can go on the hive, over the queen excluder when bee numbers have increased".

 

[For want of a better word]

I am quite happy to have a super with stores "contaminated" with Thymol.

I place a super with empty drawn capped and partly filled frames above the BB fitted with QE and additional small eke with Apiwhatever on top of the BB frames.

Crown board goes on top of super as per usual.

During the month of Apiwhatever thymol treatment the bees are still gathering and storing loads of ivy balsam etc, no doubt "contaminated" with Thymol.

when winterising the hive I will do a spring ballance heft with the super placed below the BB so as stated above bees can get to their "contaminated" Thymolized stores.

A different way than feeding with thymolated syrup, although have considered this as well.
I am running double BBs on nearly all my productive hives and all are packed with brood and stores and bees at the moment... considering if to put the super of "contaminated" stores between the BBs for winter in the hope that the bees will all move up to the top bb by spring?

The used wax from the super will be cut up for candles and the frames and box steralised and rewaxed for the next bumper honey crop!
Comments would be appreciated

 

[enrico]

Hebeegeebee I agree. That is exactly what I said in my first post to her but I think she was put off by Icanhoppit who suggested that bees have dirty feet!!!!
Maybe he/she should try a door mat at the entrance! Thanks for thinking along the same lines as me anyway. It never fails to amaze me just how broad the scope of thinking and doing can be!
E

 

[AndreaW]

Hebeegeebee I agree. That is exactly what I said in my first post to her but I think she was put off by Icanhoppit who suggested that bees have dirty feet!!!!
Maybe he/she should try a door mat at the entrance! Thanks for thinking along the same lines as me anyway. It never fails to amaze me just how broad the scope of thinking and doing can be!
E

Just accumulating all the different views Not actually put off by the dirty feet - just the weight of the brood box and whether I would be able to lift it. I don't yet have a spare floor and my helper is my 8 year old daughter

Apiguard is going on tomorrow

 

[oliver90owner]

Comments would be appreciated

from post #4 How would frames get tainted with thymol?
from post #5 Replacement of foundation and scrubbing of the frames and brood box in hot vinegar ? (Acetic acid) is essential
Post #12 I am quite happy to have a super with stores "contaminated" with Thymol.
and lastly at post #12 The used wax from the super will be cut up for candles
Is joined up thinking going on here?

I would not be 'cutting up the wax from a super' to make candles. Too valuable a commodity and plenty from damaged/deformed frames and brood frame changes.
What has a super of frames got to do with scrubbing a brood box with hot vinegar?

Everyone has their own ideas, I suppose.

 

[Mandeville]

I extracted one supers-worth of honey last night

and I want to give them the wet frames to clean out - I'm hoping to do that this evening.

Should I wait until they've done this before starting Apiwotsiting to avoid the frames being tainted for future seasons or is it only the honey itself that gets affected?

The configuration I'm planning on is
BB, QX, 3" eke with Apiwotsit, CB with open feeder holes, 2 supers with wet frames and some stores, CB with covered feeder holes.

Does this sound OK? I was hoping to remove the cleaned-out frames in 2-3 days.

Thanks for any tips, comments, criticism etc
Mandie

 

[beestie]

Please comment on this method...

Inspected today hoping for enough capped honey to extract. There isn't, so here's what I found/did:

Brood box (National): plenty of brood in all stages. Plenty of bees. Not much in the way of stores around the brood though. End frames still not fully drawn.

Super: 1 frame 3/4 capped, about 5 frames containing uncapped unripe honey. The rest incompletely drawn.

I removed the QE, put Apiguard tray on centre of brood bars and added an eke (actually an empty super)

Crownboard without escapes on top of eke. Super with honey frames on top of crownboard, having bruised the cappings. Hive roof on top of that.

I am hoping the bees will take the super honey down to the brood box (now separated by crownboard and eke), and hoping the resulting empty super frames won't be contaminated with Apiguard before the final winter shutdown. Will then remove them - therefore left with Brood Box only - before winter feeding and after Varroa/Nosema treatment.

I presume extra space (eke) means less heat for now. Is that OK for another month? May also slow Queen laying and so make space for winter stores. This is the method I've used in the past...but that was before I found this forum

 

[AndreaW]

Inspected today hoping for enough capped honey to extract. There isn't, so here's what I found/did:

Brood box (National): plenty of brood in all stages. Plenty of bees. Not much in the way of stores around the brood though. End frames still not fully drawn.

Super: 1 frame 3/4 capped, about 5 frames containing uncapped unripe honey. The rest incompletely drawn.

I removed the QE, put Apiguard tray on centre of brood bars and added an eke (actually an empty super)

Crownboard without escapes on top of eke. Super with honey frames on top of crownboard, having bruised the cappings. Hive roof on top of that.

I am hoping the bees will take the super honey down to the brood box (now separated by crownboard and eke), and hoping the resulting empty super frames won't be contaminated with Apiguard before the final winter shutdown. Will then remove them - therefore left with Brood Box only - before winter feeding and after Varroa/Nosema treatment.

I presume extra space (eke) means less heat for now. Is that OK for another month? May also slow Queen laying and so make space for winter stores. This is the method I've used in the past...but that was before I found this forum

Beestie that is just what I am toying with doing, but was going to leave the QE on for the moment so I know where her majesty is - if I leave the super on for the winter I will take it off.

 

[enrico]

Beestie, as discussed, this is one way of doing it. Other ways discussed earlier in this thread. Whatever you do, even if it is wrong the bees will try and make it right!!!
E

 

[AndreaW]

Beestie, as discussed, this is one way of doing it. Other ways discussed earlier in this thread. Whatever you do, even if it is wrong the bees will try and make it right!!!
E

I like the way you think