move to make with problem hive

burren · May 7, 2015

I had a hive overwintering(brood and half) with a july 2014 queen.( treated with apiguard end of Aug and oxalic in Dec) all fine.
Feb 2015 bull calves over turned hive. I found it with 3 other over turned hives in a spell of very cold continual rain. Could have been exposed for a few days.
On finding the deverstation I put all the hives together quickly and prayed! Could not inspect as another heavy shower just about to start
Bees seen flying in and out/ busy hive/pollen coming in, in March- fingers crossed
19/04/15- 1st inspection- no sign of q. only drone broad, some eggs, some singles (dead centre) few doubles in cells. could it be laying workers or dlq?
30/04/15 -no change in frames since last inspection. bias frame put into hive from another hive. QE put on so to take away super when cleared.
07/05/15 -no q seen/ no eggs/ few dead bees in cells with heads out/ no q cell made on new frame..... Hive has stores. Hope it is not on way out
Dont think it would be wise to add another frame ( due to time been "possibily" q less)What would be next best move to make? thanks

oliver90owner · May 8, 2015

Simple answer is it needs a new queen. That should be as clear as crystal!!

Determining whether a drone layer, or not, is relatively easy based on several simple observations. Strategy may be altered dependent on that result.

So two simple steps? Be certain the hive is queenless and then requeen.

You have lost a couple of weeks and more. Do it now.

burren · May 8, 2015

thanks o90o. Just needed it confirmed. Was going to combine with a nuc ( newspaper method) yesterday. The fact that no q cell was made with the new frame was making me hesitant. cheers

bontbee · May 8, 2015

Not just to be contrary but, yes, it could it be laying workers? Are the eggs in a solid pattern or are they in scattered cells?

Was your queen marked? If not, how confident are you of finding an unmarked DLQ, (smaller than Q in full lay?)

How strong is the colony now?

burren · May 8, 2015

Hi Bontbee
yes July 2014 q was marked+clipped.
eggs seen on 19th April- solid pattern- just small amount.
still lots of bees.
yep looked for new/unmarked q. (knew it was unlikely for new q to have been raised since Feb- no drones around)
no new eggs since 19th, even with the new frame put in on 30th April.

oliver90owner · May 8, 2015

The fact that no q cell was made with the new frame was making me hesitant.

Clearly not proven Q-, so a good job you did not go ahead and act without proper consideration - unless you are willing to risk losing your good queen.

There is a simple issue here. If Q+, the queen must be found and removed. If Q-, laying workers need to be suppressed. Simple alternatives or progression. Nothing difficult.

Strength of colony is not going to improve for at least three weeks (if requeened tomorrow). Uniting with a nuc is pretty well equivalent to requeening with instant colony number improvement and that is the first option to be considered if available. BUT, these bees must be Q- before risking a good queen or you may be back on here, again lamenting the potential loss of the colony when the same issues continue.

Torq · May 8, 2015

If there is no brood then why don't you transfer your nuc into a hive and just throw the bad hive out on a sheet in front of it. The bees will find their way into the hive and you should find the queen on the sheet if she is there and then off the royal executioner with her.

burren · May 8, 2015

yes o90o, this is what I said previously - no q cell made on new frame ( in 7 days)( yes i know sometimes it can take 2 or 3 frames) but the q may have been killed in feb or those few eggs may have been a failing queen in April or laying workers ( too many were in correct position though) and no eggs since 19th april so think we are safe re laying workers now.So will unite with nuc. Torg, may do unite your way as a tripe check ! thanks all