Module 3

[MuswellMetro]

In the exam paper March 2011 the exam board call it Paenibacillus larvae larvae, but NBU now refer to it as plain Paenibacillus larvae..... hmmm.

Margaret Thomas the moderator of the Modules went through the march 2011 papers at the national Honey show work shop last saturday, i dont recollect that she said PLL was wrong, i am therefore going with PLL until i see a published re classication paper published after 2009 ( ie the date the NBU set up the phd at Uni of York to look at PLP and PLL classifications, i will also email york uni)

Both Paenibacilluss larva larva and Paenibacillus larva pulvifaciens HAVE been shown to cause AFB but only PLP to casue powdery scale disease ( dont worry, PSD is not in the syllabus and only occurs in parts of Europe and i ask margerat on Saturday and she siad dont worry about PLP it in not in the UK....but I did not ask about the reclassiifacation issue)

 

[DanBee]

Are you sure

Yes

 

[DanBee]

Reclassification of Paenibacillus larvae subsp. pulvifaciens and Paenibacillus larvae subsp. larvae as Paenibacillus larvae without subspecies differentiation.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Reclassification of Paenibacillus larvae subsp. pulvifaciens and Paenibacillus larvae subsp. larvae as Paenibacillus larvae without subspecies differentiation.

but i have already posted that and it is a 2006 paper and since then the nbu have funded Phd work in 2009 to look PLV and PLL due to the outdated method used in the 2006 paper...ie the csl/NBU did not accept the paper

see the 2009 fundng

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadNews.cfm?id=19

Background
AFB is a serious disease of honey bee brood caused by Paenibacillus larvae subspecies (Figure 1,
Figure 2). The classification of Paenibacillus larvae subspecies has been the focus of much
research since its discovery. Correct classification of the organism is important and should relate
to molecular characteristics rather than laboratory experiments targeting tiny differences in
pathogenicity.
1. There are 2 subspecies: Virulent Paenibacillus larvae ssp larvae (Pll) and Paenibacillus
larvae ssp pulvifaciens (Plp) which is know to cause powdery scale disease
2. All Pll isolates cause AFB, but only some Plp isolates have the ability to cause AFB
Due to some Plp isolates being able to cause AFB, some scientists have called for the subspecies
differentiation to be dropped. However the methods that have been used to determine the
classification of the organism are somewhat dated. Therefore it is important to utilise the latest
methods and study the genetics behind the organism to determine the true classification

 

[DanBee]

I think you're flapping just cite the NBU 'Foul Brood' booklet if you're worried.

BTW, that's a serious point; very often conflicting information is given in the various texts, it is perfectly valid to give one of the published answers and justify it (e.g. "according to Celia Davis in Honeybee Inside Out...") as long as it is a respected text/source and relatively recent. Saves you wasting valuable minutes trying to recall / write the various answers. From the moderator herself

 

[DanBee]

Final comment on the subject: Wikipedia has it as Paenibacillus larvae subsp. larvae, so that's pretty conclusive proof that it's not

 

[MuswellMetro]

Final comment on the subject: Wikipedia has it as Paenibacillus larvae subsp. larvae, so that's pretty conclusive proof that it's not

LOL yes KISS is better, it the physicist in me that causes the problem


Lets get off the subject of AFB.....so does anyone else need help with anything except latin names

 

[Easy Beesy]

On the subject of reclassification, CSL, is no longer used.

 

[susbees]

Actually it's just Paenibacillus larvae now - not larvae larvae. Re-classified about six years ago.

Change is the only constant

And still on BBKA syllabus as larvae larvae.....Margaret kindly said she would accept larvae. I did try to explain

 

[MuswellMetro]

And still on BBKA syllabus as larvae larvae.....Margaret kindly said she would accept larvae. I did try to explain

well I am man, I can't not do two thing at once...can I ,i even left my coat and had to go back..

Actual it was the noise of people leaving, I only have hearing below middle C and now realise , what you said, i was rather too polite to ask for clarification at the workshop

thanks...though I took the thread rather off track

 

[susbees]

well I am man, I can't not do two thing at once...can I ,i even left my coat and had to go back..

Actual it was the noise of people leaving, I only have hearing below middle C and now realise , what you said, i was rather too polite to ask for clarification at the workshop

thanks...though I took the thread rather off track

I meant to her...not you. Though that as well s'ppose. Hole's getting deeper....

 

[MuswellMetro]

I've been working on a crib sheet - stuff has been shamelessly plagiarised form beebase and other sources.

Can anyone help fill in the blanks?

can i suugest we get back to eddiespangle's spread sheet to help him...and ignore the hole i have just dug

 

[Black Comb]

Here's another.
Is it necessary to underline all the Latin names as I can't write in italics?

 

[MuswellMetro]

Here's another.
Is it necessary to underline all the Latin names as I can't write in italics?

type in italics but in exams i have never underlined latin names,,,dont think the moderator is that prescriptive, but she like the lower case on the second word...ie Paenibacillus alvei not Paenibacillus Alvei

 

[Polyanwood]

Another AFB question please.


Given that AFB spores are so resilient and long lasting, how can we be sure that bought foundation does not contain these spores?

 

[MuswellMetro]

Another AFB question please.


Given that AFB spores are so resilient and long lasting, how can we be sure that bought foundation does not contain these spores?

or that that it contains pesticides

, i suspect you problalble cant be sure, so source of the wax is the answer....I dont buy mine from EH T of Rand

 

[susbees]

or that that it contains pesticides

, i suspect you problalble cant be sure, so source of the wax is the answer....I dont buy mine from EH T of Rand

Their premium is UK I thought?

 

[MuswellMetro]

Their premium is UK I thought?

from their web site

Premier beeswax is manufactured at Rand. It is top quality foundation blended from the finest British, Irish, Australian and New Zealand beeswax.

Standard quality beeswax is manufactured at Rand. It is beeswax blended from a variety of sources and has excellent colour and aroma.

I prefer my wax to smell of beewax and get it from KBS ,it is also deeper pressed

 

[susbees]

I prefer my wax to smell of beewax and get it from KBS ,it is also deeper pressed

But where does the colour come from?

 

[alanf]

I prefer my wax to smell of beewax and get it from KBS ,it is also deeper pressed

Given how widespread it is in use, if there was any AFB infection from a major supplier's foundation it would appear pretty quickly. And if it did, that's the business gone overnight. There are references to 'hot wax dipping' to kill AFB spores being used in Australia and new Zealand, 10 minutes at 150-160 C as analysed by Goodwin and Haine in the 1990s if you search for it. Something of a guess, but high temperature treatment to kill disease spores could be why most foundation doesn't smell of much.