Modified Dadants

[Crg]

Not sure about the spacing in your hives because MD and Jumbo are not the same. They are spaced differently, ie. have different width side bars.

The spacing is different - the frames are the same.

 

[Chris Luck]

Some bees are more inclined to swarm than others

Yup, bees that are allowed to behave naturally are a good example.

Chris

 

[Crg]

Yup, bees that are allowed to behave naturally are a good example.

Bees that are allowed to behave naturally are a good example in that they have a wide range in swarming tendency, it depends on sub species amongst many other factors.

 

[Chris Luck]

A sub species? Go on, it sounds good, can you expand a little, what sub species are we talking about?

Chris

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

The reason why MD isn't used more in the UK is because of the failings on new beekeepers. Few investigate aspects of the hive before getting bees, and this is why so mant later change to a larger pattern of hive.

.

Bit harsh. I think most new beeks do some investigation once they find out there are alternatives to WBC. Courses invariable start with a session on different hive types. But standard nationals are cheap and plentiful and in widespread use amongst amateurs.

Having bought that first national nuc (because thats pretty much all there is) and seen it expand into the compatible DN box many then decide to go to a larger box rather than double up, and a 14x12 or a Commercial are easier and cheaper options. Its not surprising that MD doesnt get a look in.

 

[Crg]

A sub species? Go on, it sounds good, can you expand a little, what sub species are we talking about?

I'm not sure you're reading properly.

 

[Crg]

Um, no. The test frame scenario is OFTEN discussed on this forum and can't recall you suggesting it's unacceptable. And when buying and selling nucs it helps a lot if the nuc frames are compatible with where they are going next.

I said "you shouldn't share equipment because of the risk of spreading disease", and as beekeepers are the main culprits for spreading bee diseases that really should be made very clear.

You can use a test frame from the same apiary without risking contamination from other apiaries. That should be obvious, so of course I wouldn't suggest it's unacceptable.

And why do you feel a 14x12 or commercial is unsuitable? Gets rid of the two box brood (and from traditional two box queen rearing but that's OT). And MDs are too heavy for many people...including those of us with good backs that want to keep them that way.

A 14x12 is a pretty poor "hack" to get around the limitations of an unsuitable hive type isn't it? The commercial would be okay if there weren't so many other different sizes attempting to solve the problem as well.

You say the MD is too heavy for many people, and in it's default configuration that is probably true, but it you can use exactly the same frames in a 10 frame jumbo Langstroth which is lighter. You can even get 8 frame sized boxes in other countries which are lighter still (haven't seen them here).

It's a much more elegant solution.

 

[Chris Luck]

You did write this, I've asked a couple of people to check I'm seeing what is written.

You wrote it depends on sub species amongst many other factors.

and I asked "A sub species? Go on, it sounds good, can you expand a little, what sub species are we talking about?"

But if you don't want to explain I'll understand it's quite common on here.

Chris

 

[Skyhook]

A sub species? Go on, it sounds good, can you expand a little, what sub species are we talking about?

Chris

I would assume he's reffering to A. m. carnica. They have a strong reputation for it. The bees at our association apiary are from a range of sources, and there is one A.m. carnica colony which produces swarm cells for a pastime- in other words, they're very swarmy.

I suspect you may be in a minority of one here.

 

[the naked beekeeper]

Bit harsh. I think most new beeks do some investigation once they find out there are alternatives to WBC. Courses invariable start with a session on different hive types. But standard nationals are cheap and plentiful and in widespread use amongst amateurs.

Having bought that first national nuc (because thats pretty much all there is) and seen it expand into the compatible DN box many then decide to go to a larger box rather than double up, and a 14x12 or a Commercial are easier and cheaper options. Its not surprising that MD doesnt get a look in.

Spot on.

There's nothing like experience and no matter how much 'investigation' takes place, no beginner knows the dynamics of a colony until it is observed every week over the season.

That coupled with the fact that the vast majority of new beeks get their bees on BS size, means that we nearly all start out with BS hives...until experience tells us otherwise.

After all, why would you, as a new beek, insist on getting a bigger, more expensive, comparitively rare and largely incompatible hive when you can just get a national nuc? Or when you see a National is too small (IMO), then you can simply retain all the rest of the equipment you've shelled out on, for the sake of an eke and a frame change, or a 16x10.

A lot of newbies, myself included when I was one, would have been terrified of anticipating handling a full MD colony..with the sheer weight of it and numbers of bees alone. Particularly if they have aggresive bees, and that is their only experience of their own bees...why would you want more?!

Experience is wisdom.

Reading and attending courses and apiary meetings are only knowledge.

Personally I can't stand Jumbo Langs (I haven't operated MDs) as there is no leverage to get that first frame out, no room for a dummy board and you inevitabley end up rolling bees and I cannot afford to spend time wiring frames, so the combs end up awful eventually due to no side bar groove.

 

[Chris Luck]

Thank you Skyhook for responding on behalf of Craig, and yes it is generally reckoned that Carnies swarm easily when short of space when some others may put up with more crowded situations...

...having said that I have found that Apis mellifera ligustica swarms readily when they are generally reckoned not to. Possibly a little later in the season but swarm none the less. I still think from experience it's in large part how the bees are managed and how the three conditions for swarming are met in any given season.

Chris

 

[Crg]

You did write this, I've asked a couple of people to check I'm seeing what is written.

You wrote it depends on sub species amongst many other factors.

and I asked "A sub species? Go on, it sounds good, can you expand a little, what sub species are we talking about?"

But if you don't want to explain I'll understand it's quite common on here.

I'd rather you understood the difference between plural and singular first. Then we can possibly go somewhere with this.

 

[Crg]

Thank you Skyhook for responding on behalf of Craig

Skyhook gave his own answer he wasn't responding on behalf of anyone. That's how forums work. Anybody can chip in all on their own.

 

[Crg]

Personally I can't stand Jumbo Langs (I haven't operated MDs) as there is no leverage to get that first frame out, no room for a dummy board

MD has slightly large spacing.

and you inevitabley end up rolling bees and I cannot afford to spend time wiring frames, so the combs end up awful eventually due to no side bar groove.

If you use prewired foundation you don't need to spend time wiring.

 

[Chris Luck]

My, my, oh dear oh dear, tetchy or what?

It is reckoned to be extremely bad manners on forums / fora to be a smarty pants about peoples grammar, education, spelling etc as you have raised the subject.

Chris