Empty hive but huge amounts of stores

[user 22174]

... the hive is empty with really no apparant reason apart from a very small area of one frame looking as if a mouse might have chewed it. There was very little rubbish on the floor, and no immediate evidence of dead bees....But huge amounts of sealed stores. ...

I have experienced similar this year. Two strong colonies going into Winter. No sign of activity in early Feb but I thought it unwise to look. A week ago there were a lot of bees coming and going, so great excitement but looking closer I saw no pollen coming in, some fighting on the landing board, then my young companion said "Is that the Queen there?" as a huge bumble be went straight in the entrance so I knew something was wrong and that I might just be seeing some robbing by other colonies.

Late in the day when flying had stopped I opened the hives to find not a single living bee. some dead bees and some debris on the floor, the comb missing in a small area in the centre of the brood nest but the rest of the comb pretty much intact. I removed a large quantity of stores.

They didn't starve, that's for sure, it didn't look like the mess a mouse makes, it was too late for pesticide issues, no brood so no brood disease... I am thinking it must be mite and virus related. These were colonies in Warre hives that had been neither treated nor fed.

I have found the experience quite upsetting. How messed up is beekeeping if you can't even keep them alive without intrusive management and treatments?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How messed up is beekeeping if you can't even keep them alive without intrusive management and treatments?

but with all animal husbandry, people don't just leave them fend for themselves, they have a duty of care not to. In fact there would be an uproar if someone just took a few cows/sheep/pigs/horses, dumped them on the mountain and just walked away

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Don't think I've lost any colonies yet but ......
Last year the ivy flow was much stronger. At the end of September I took this photo of ivy nectar cramping the brood area so I can see that there may have been a pause in the production of winter bees. In last 6 years. I've never noticed solidifyng ivy nectar like this before.
I overwinter on brood and a half Nationals. Keeping my fingers crossed.
. . . .Ben

 

[Ian123]

I have found the experience quite upsetting. How messed up is beekeeping if you can't even keep them alive without intrusive management and treatments?

Bees are live stock they will require your management and care…… if not well you’ve seen the results, inspecting your bees causes little disruption to the hive, I’ve never seen I un inspected hives benefit or out preform those that are intruded upon it’s a myth!!
There are alternative methods to harsh chemicals even inc management techniques……….but you need to do something! and you and your bees will benifit if your proactive and your likely to learn and benefit a lot more.

 

[Erichalfbee]

For myself and most I’m speaking to this looks like being a very good winter in terms of colony survival.

Same here. I’ve lost one colony to queen failure. The rest are thriving and still heavy enough. Two of them are chucking out some of the Ivy though.

 

[user 22174]

but with all animal husbandry, people don't just leave them fend for themselves, they have a duty of care not to. In fact there would be an uproar if someone just took a few cows/sheep/pigs/horses, dumped them on the mountain and just walked away

This is nonsense. Round here there are plenty of cattle, sheep, ponies (not pigs) left roaming the hilltops fending for themselves.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

I have found the experience quite upsetting.

So did I.
A truly wild colony would have a much worse survival rate than our colonies in boxes. We expect them to survive and see it as a measure of our success.
I decided that I didn't want to keep a sick animal in my garden so I have moved into more serious management. You could say that bees are a lower form of life and that they don't suffer in the way that a mammal would. The creature that is suffering is this human that is thinking of his bees more like a pet.
. . . Ben

 

[Erichalfbee]

This is nonsense. Round here there are plenty of cattle, sheep, ponies (not pigs) left roaming the hilltops fending for themselves.

Forever? Are they not rounded up now and again to be checked? Wormed? Sheared? Lambed? Etc

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This is nonsense. Round here there are plenty of cattle, sheep, ponies (not pigs) left roaming the hilltops fending for themselves

Do you not actually realise how ridiculous that statement is?
Haven't you noticed the numbered ear tag on every sheep and cow?
Do you think that nobody realises they have a duty of care to those animals
Have you not noticed people occasionally turning up to feed and check up on them?
Do you think that if any of those animals gets sick, a vet won't be called?

 

[Ian123]

This is nonsense. Round here there are plenty of cattle, sheep, ponies (not pigs) left roaming the hilltops fending for themselves.

That’s just not true…….

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have found the experience quite upsetting. How messed up is beekeeping if you can't even keep them alive without intrusive management and treatments?

These were colonies in Warre hives that had been neither treated nor fed.

and you now wonder why they died

 

[user 22174]

Do you not actually realise how ridiculous that statement is?
Haven't you noticed the numbered ear tag on every sheep and cow?
Do you think that nobody realises they have a duty of care to those animals
Have you not noticed people occasionally turning up to feed and check up on them?
Do you think that if any of those animals gets sick, a vet won't be called?

Oh dear,

 

[user 22174]

That’s just not true…….

It is, actually.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Now now. Let’s keep it nice

 

[Parsonage Bees]

There goes this thread!

 

[user 20297]

Bees are live stock they will require your management and care…… if not well you’ve seen the results, inspecting your bees causes little disruption to the hive, I’ve never seen I un inspected hives benefit or out preform those that are intruded upon it’s a myth!!
There are alternative methods to harsh chemicals even inc management techniques……….but you need to do something! and you and your bees will benifit if your proactive and your likely to learn and benefit a lot more.

I did read of a teaching apiary in Scotland that produced significantly more honey during the covid lockdown when novice beekeepers were obviously not around.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I did read of a teaching apiary in Scotland that produced significantly more honey during the covid lockdown when novice beekeepers were obviously not around.

teaching apiary hives are a totally different matter - they don't just get opened and quickly inspected once a week - they get prodded and fiddled with for no good reason, frames clumsily banged about, left open for ages whilst the queen is searched for.............
And it gets worse when the students arrive

 

[Ian123]

I did read of a teaching apiary in Scotland that produced significantly more honey during the covid lockdown when novice beekeepers were obviously not around.

Lol…….. you got me

 

[Erichalfbee]

teaching apiary hives are a totally different matter - they don't just get opened and quickly inspected once a week - they get prodded and fiddled with for no good reason, frames clumsily banged about, left open for ages whilst the queen is searched for.............
And it gets worse when the students arrive

They are sacrificial. Beginners have to learn somewhere but it’s no excuse for not employing best practice.

 

[Ian123]

It is, actually.

No it isn’t……. I did not elaborate on my short post because others had already covered the salient points. So in case you missed them.

Animals will be tagged and registered they will be vaccinated and wormed. Any animal not so cared for or recorded is worthless!
In harsh conditions farmers provide extra food or return them to sheltered fields or even barns.
If you believe animals are running free and uncared for I suggest you contact the relevant authorities….I’ve made considerable effort to keep this NICE