Message from National Bee Inspector

[Skyhook]

Try discussing the subject instead trying to make snide comments.
Chris

Funny, that was rather the point I was trying to make. Taking honey is not a crime against the bees, and for the great majority it is the primary reason for keeping them. Feeding may be required at various times of year for various reasons, including an interruption of the flow due to bad weather. The main thing that is flagged up here for me is the requirement to inspect regularly. Perhaps your comments weren't intended as holier-than-thou- perhaps I just read them wrong, in which case I apologise.

 

[BBG]

but of course a strong colony with loads of bees will eat itself out of house and home in a very short time if limited food is coming in.

Feel this is the case as this appears to have happened to me too.

In addition, wasps, I have moved hives to new locations due to pillaging by these b things. Closed one up today after feeding and spilling syrup and wasps arrived by the dozen. We killed 30/40 sometimes two and three at a time on the hive board.

Nucs, in particular, have lost weight quickly and are now being fed. Thymol about to be implemented.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Im feeding and treating for the dreaded mite.. A question for mm are you feeding thick syrup or thin

thin, for the next few weeks, then 2:1 when ivy comes in

 

[Cazza]

I do live in OSR land Cazza and I find it slightly amusing that I'm frequently taken to task either directly or indirectly for what I like to call my bee management but others on here, probably the majority, call bad practice, but then they would, wouldn't they?

Bees will take OSR down if they need it and use it therefore it isn't very complicated to leave them a quota. If that quota isn't required it can be taken later, crushed, mixed and fed back to them.

To put matters in context, this has been a dire year here as well, the worst I've known BUT I haven't taken any summer supers of yet, I'm holding back and when I do remove them in the next couple of weeks I will be thinking about the bees - not my wallet. At least 15 of my colonies will be left completely intact with no honey removed what ever the situation.

Of course I can do this because I don't treat.

Chris

I wouldn't dream of criticising your bee management. It was how I was taught to keep bees and did so as "underbeekeeper" for 10 years with my lovely long dead mentor. I respect, understand and have practiced your methods.
My point is, I would normally take my OSR honey off. This would normally be absolutely fine and I would leave my supers on from May onwards without needing to feed. How could I predict that the usual blackberry crop this year would be nil, normally at least 2 supers are filled with it? As a consequence I will need to feed before the ivy saves the day. My wallet never enters my head.
Cazza

 

[Hebeegeebee]

In my corner of Norfolk I feed as soon as the supers come off. There's no point in waiting until September and then giving them gallons of the stuff. Gentle feed will ensure continual egg laying (subject to the effects of Thymol on queen laying), and hopefully ensure there are plenty of bees going into winter.

As other posters have written, there is little forage at this time of the year for most. Varroa treatment and feeding can be done at the same time.

Cazza,
I'm in SE Norfolk and I had a blinding crop from bramble. Just shows how forage can change from one location to another.

 

[newportbuzz]

over the last 3 weeks i have had the pleasure of looking after 30 odd stocks for a freind and my own aswell. of all those stocks one was hungry not starving but definatly hungry i guessed they had about 5 lbs. everything else is ok for now but there is very little point of starving our bees is there?
we are currently waiting for our heather to start. which seems quite stuborn this year but with luck it will come otherwise it will be a huge feed for everything.
btw if they need food give them food dont play with them they have big bills to pay in that little box. the light stock got 1 gallon of heavy syrup and a spray of light syrup on a few of the combs in the nest and a heavly reduced entrance and a lot of attension to insure it is ok.

all the other stocks are quietly eating through there food and there are 4 more stocks that if the heather doesnt come on in the next week will need food. most of the rest will need feeding after that.

 

[Cazza]

Cazza,
I'm in SE Norfolk and I had a blinding crop from bramble. Just shows how forage can change from one location to another.

Hi H
I can't understand why it was so poor here. I'm surrounded by the stuff. It rained just before the flowers came on so nectar should have been there?? Having said that, the soil here is very light and sandy so perhaps not enough rain at the right moment?
C

 

[Chris Luck]

Forgetting for a moment the issues earlier in the year with OSR etc, the point of the e-mail from the Inspector is that most colonies they and their team are visiting are either starving or on the point of starving now at the end of August.

Now if this really is the case then what has the bee keeper done wrong / misjudged / misunderstood or what ever? It's really no good blaming the weather when they have removed their reserves.

How were they expecting them to survive right through until March if they are running out of stores now?

Equally, if where you keep your bees is in an area / region where bees wouldn't be able to survive without human assistance then it probably isn't where you should be keeping bees.

Chris

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Now if this really is the case then what has the bee keeper done wrong / misjudged / misunderstood or what ever? It's really no good blaming the weather when they have removed their reserves.

Chris - I'm sure you are right about some folk being greedy, however this is not the case for all - I've been feeding for a couple of weeks already after only taking off 4 Lbs of honey. So yes, I can blame the weather.

How were they expecting them to survive right through until March if they are running out of stores now?

By feeding?

Equally, if where you keep your bees is in an area / region where bees wouldn't be able to survive without human assistance then it probably isn't where you should be keeping bees.

Availability of forage isn't consistent from year to year. Many places are suffering a dearth this year because of the unusual weather.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Hi H
I can't understand why it was so poor here. I'm surrounded by the stuff. It rained just before the flowers came on so nectar should have been there?? Having said that, the soil here is very light and sandy so perhaps not enough rain at the right moment?
C

it was noticable that after rain the bees were much busier the next day during the bramble period. My soil too is pretty light and sandy although 1km away there is a big lake where the soil is always damp.

Maybe I was just lucky.

Adam

 

[Beezy]

What does that tell you Beezy?

Chris

Not sure what you mean Chris? I have supers that I can give back to the bees once I've finished treating, but for these 4-6 weeks while I'm treating, I'm feeding the bees syrup to make sure they have enough to tide them over.

 

[Chris Luck]

Obviously a misunderstanding Beezy when you wrote...

"I think a lot of beekeepers (me included) are treating for varroa at the moment, so the supers are all off. I checked my bees a few days ago and they had eaten a lot of what was in the bb so I had to feed them syrup to top them up."

....it wasn't clear to me that you intended to put the supers with stores back on in a few weeks or so, although I thought, (bear in mind I know nothing about treatments), that you only needed to worry about honey that was for human consumption otherwise the honey in the brood box would be no good for the bees following treatment - have I got that right? I'm sure there's something technical here I'm missing.

Chris

 

[MandF]

Its only the honey for human consumption, and as I understand it, it is still "fit for consumption", its just it will taste of thymol!

I suspect he is taking everything off before treatment because if there is a late flow of something he would still like the option of harvesting some of that honey?

 

[Beezy]

I didn't want to contaminate the supers, as I wasn't sure if the chemicals would remain in the frames next year when I want to extract for human consumption. I might be being over-cautious but thought it was best to keep them well away.

 

[MandF]

The frames themselves are fine - its only honey/nectar that you need to worry about. I left everything I couldnt extract on, and will put these above the crownboard at some stage down the line to make sure they have it all before I take the frames off for storage.

 

[Skyhook]

Obviously a misunderstanding Beezy when you wrote...

"I think a lot of beekeepers (me included) are treating for varroa at the moment, so the supers are all off. I checked my bees a few days ago and they had eaten a lot of what was in the bb so I had to feed them syrup to top them up."

....it wasn't clear to me that you intended to put the supers with stores back on in a few weeks or so, although I thought, (bear in mind I know nothing about treatments), that you only needed to worry about honey that was for human consumption otherwise the honey in the brood box would be no good for the bees following treatment - have I got that right? I'm sure there's something technical here I'm missing.

Chris

Are we to understand that you think it is wrong per se to remove honey, then autumn feed if required? If so, perhaps you could explain why? I have heard of a possible benefit of wintering on syrup, in that the purer sugar reduces the need to defaecate; but I've never heard a disadvantage given. I particularly welcome the opportunity to introduce thymol with the consequent protection against nosema.

 

[Chris Luck]

It should be clear by now from my posts that I try to do most things in life in the most natural manner possible, that includes keeping bees, therefore in principle I would avoid wherever possible using artificial feeds, (or treatments), either for bees or growing crops.

It works for me and the bees, that's all I can say.

I would be very happy to have my colonies included in any objective scientific research with regard to what is better for bees - syrup or honey.

Perhaps you would prefer a diet that reduced your need to defecate, I doubt it would be that healthy. but then I don't know what you eat now anyway.

Chris

 

[Skyhook]

Perhaps you would prefer a diet that reduced your need to defecate, I doubt it would be that healthy. but then I don't know what you eat now anyway.

Chris

No, I'm just fine as I am thanks; but then I have indoor plumbing and don't have to choose in winter whether to foul my home or run the risk of dying of hypothermia.

I appreciate that you keep your bees in the way you consider best for them, but your view is one among many. If you avoid such negative responses to other peoples methods as you used earlier in this thread, you will find it much more condusive to open discussion- who knows, you might even end up convincing me!

 

[Chris Luck]

That's right, my view is one among many and I'm not telling anyone else what to do with their boxes of insects, although I'm still amazed that any colony that isn't a recent swarm or nuc could be starving or on the point of starving at the end of August as per the Inspectors' e-mail.

Should any members or readers of this forum fall into that category so be it.

Chris

 

[TBRNoTB]

That's right, my view is one among many and I'm not telling anyone else what to do with their boxes of insects, although I'm still amazed that any colony that isn't a recent swarm or nuc could be starving or on the point of starving at the end of August as per the Inspectors' e-mail.

Should any members or readers of this forum fall into that category so be it.

Chris

Chris
My long 14x12 hive which is very strong, has eaten it's self out of house and home. My other three hives which are equally as strong are well loaded with stores. Do I not feed the first because the latter are OK? or do I treat as I find?
Regards
TBRNoTB