Merging through newspaper and other questions ...

[Andy Coleman]

I have a colony with no eggs or brood of any stage, there is a good looking queen in there who was new last summer, but I'm assuming she has stopped laying because not mated properly. There a quite a lot of bees in the hive, more than I would have expected to have survived the winter, so looks to me as if she had been laying, but must have stopped over three weeks ago. They look otherwise healthy, tested them clear for nosema last month.

Next to this hive I have another which is expanding reasonably well, this time with a productive queen. Also looks healthy and no nosema.

I was thinking of merging the Queenless one through newspaper over the queenright colony next to it (killing the dud queen first). I haven't merged colonies next door to each other before, will this work, might I get problems with the Queenless ones trying to find the site next door once they get through the paper? There aren't any other colonies close by.

Any better ideas on what I should do? I thought of putting in a frame with eggs, but the existing workforce will be slowly dwindling, and thought I would stand a better chance of getting some honey with one bigger colony. I've seen queens fail by laying fewer eggs and patchy drone brood, but not just stopping laying completely - is this likely? There doesn't seem to be any problem with laying workers because I suppose they still feel queen right even though she isn't laying.

 

[Cazza]

I was thinking of merging the Queenless one through newspaper over the queenright colony next to it (killing the dud queen first). I haven't merged colonies next door to each other before, will this work, might I get problems with the Queenless ones trying to find the site next door once they get through the paper? There aren't any other colonies close by.

You should have no problems at all.By the time they are through and mingled, they seem to forget where they once lived. Even better that it is so close by.

Cazza

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I was thinking of merging the Queenless one through newspaper over the queenright colony next to it (killing the dud queen first). I haven't merged colonies next door to each other before, will this work, might I get problems with the Queenless ones trying to find the site next door once they get through the paper? There aren't any other colonies close by.

You should have no problems at all.By the time they are through and mingled, they seem to forget where they once lived. Even better that it is so close by.

Cazza

Leave the Q+ colony where it is then move the Q- colony over and put on top to unite - by the time they've got through the paper and mingled with the Q+ colony they will think of that as home (it's what I'm doing at the moment and the hives were 12 feet apart)

 

[Winker]

I have a colony with no eggs or brood of any stage, there is a good looking queen in there who was new last summer, but I'm assuming she has stopped laying because not mated properly. There a quite a lot of bees in the hive, more than I would have expected to have survived the winter, so looks to me as if she had been laying, but must have stopped over three weeks ago. They look otherwise healthy, tested them clear for nosema last month.

Next to this hive I have another which is expanding reasonably well, this time with a productive queen. Also looks healthy and no nosema.

I was thinking of merging the Queenless one through newspaper over the queenright colony next to it (killing the dud queen first). I haven't merged colonies next door to each other before, will this work, might I get problems with the Queenless ones trying to find the site next door once they get through the paper? There aren't any other colonies close by.

Any better ideas on what I should do? I thought of putting in a frame with eggs, but the existing workforce will be slowly dwindling, and thought I would stand a better chance of getting some honey with one bigger colony. I've seen queens fail by laying fewer eggs and patchy drone brood, but not just stopping laying completely - is this likely? There doesn't seem to be any problem with laying workers because I suppose they still feel queen right even though she isn't laying.

I had exactly the same situation with 2 hives right next to each other, I killed both queens and shook them out in front of another hive and took their original hives away. They all went In fine'ish

 

[Andy Coleman]

thanks for the quick answers, will get on with that! And good luck to all for the new season - this will take me from four colonies starting the winter down to two now, but at least they look strong, regards

 

[enrico]

Just done that but one hive was diagonally near the other, had about fifty flying bees arriving at old site for a couple of days, my fault because they were out flying when I did the job. Try and do it late evening so that all the bees of the q- colony are home. Cold night and they all found the nearest hive tho and all ok now.
E

 

[whoosling]

minimum equipment

Whoops didn't mean to reply and dont know how to delete!

 

[whoosling]

whoops didnt mean to reply and dont know how to delete!

 

[Hawklord]

Leave the Q+ colony where it is then move the Q- colony over and put on top to unite - by the time they've got through the paper and mingled with the Q+ colony they will think of that as home (it's what I'm doing at the moment and the hives were 12 feet apart)

Why not move both colony's towards each other, surely the job will be done in half the time?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why not move both colony's towards each other, surely the job will be done in half the time?

Errm - you mean move them closer, wait a day, move them closer still, wait a day. move them even closer etc. then unite or, wait until evening, roofs off both hives, crown board off Q+ hive, on with newspaper stabbed a few times with hive tool, QX on, lift up Q- brood box with crown board in situ, put on top of Q+ hive, roof on, job done apart from tidying away spare bits and pieces (actually took more time to type than do) and no, I didn't need a smopker either!!

 

[Hawklord]

Errm - you mean move them closer, wait a day, move them closer still, wait a day. move them even closer etc. then unite or, wait until evening, roofs off both hives, crown board off Q+ hive, on with newspaper stabbed a few times with hive tool, QX on, lift up Q- brood box with crown board in situ, put on top of Q+ hive, roof on, job done apart from tidying away spare bits and pieces (actually took more time to type than do) and no, I didn't need a smopker either!!

You said the 2 hives were 12ft apart. Considering the 3ft/3 mile rule, if my maths is correct, thats 2 moves.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You said the 2 hives were 12ft apart. Considering the 3ft/3 mile rule, if my maths is correct, thats 2 moves.

Even by your maths it would take over two days and not five minutes - even if i could have moved the both in a straight line (and ended up slap bang in front of the other two Hives

 

[Cazza]

Why not move both colony's towards each other, surely the job will be done in half the time?

Sorry, being thick here. Did you mean they should be moved nearer to each other, in stages?
If so, no, that's not what I meant. One move, of one colony, in one go on top of the other colony. Job done.
Cazza

 

[masterBK]

If you do it in the evening then you don't need all that nonsense of lots of small moves. Simply lift the broodchamber to be moved with minimal disturbance and plonk it on top of the other one (with newspaper in between). If you have a Baldock cage (crown of thorns) you can put lots of small holes in the newspaper in a short time. The holes made by beekeepers using hivetools can be too big resulting in the slaughter of hundreds of bees from fighting. Putting an excluder on top of the newspaper not only holds it down preventing it blowing away just at the worng momenet but also ensures you know which box contains the queen when you reduce the hive down to one broodchamber. Also if the weather is hot best to remove the crownboard on the top and replace it with a screen board to stop suffocation and overheating of the bees in the top box

 

[Cazza]

If you do it in the evening then you don't need all that nonsense of lots of small moves.

Alternatively, first thing in the morning works well for me, then if any bees do get lost/disturbed they have all day to find their home.
Absolutely NO need to mess about with small moves ever, ever, ever.
Cazza

 

[richardbees]

Andy

Uniting through a sheet of newspaper is about the only beekeeping technique that has always worked for me.

Wait til evening, remove the Q and stick it on top after making a few 2" tears in the paper. It shouldn't take more than 48hrs - you'll see tiny fragments of paper at the entrance but open up and check after 3 days just to be sure.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you do it in the evening then you don't need all that nonsense of lots of small moves. Simply lift the broodchamber to be moved with minimal disturbance and plonk it on top of the other one (with newspaper in between).

As I said I'd done earlier in the thread

 

[Andy Coleman]

Any views on the other question I asked, which is about the way the queen seems to have failed. She was a virgin last summer, so quite possibly didn't mate very well. But there are quite a lot of bees in the hive now, so it seems likely she had done some laying this year, but must have stopped in early April at the latest because no brood at any stage (I didn't do any inspections until late April cos of the vile weather). I've seen queens fail by becoming drone layers, but not simply stop altogether. She looks pretty fat and healthy otherwise. One experienced beek from our association suggested waiting a while to see of she just starts up again, but seems a forlorn hope by now. Any thoughts?

 

[Cazza]

Let's think about why queens stop laying and see if it applies to you. (Oh no, starting to sound like Rab....... shoot me now!)

Here are some ideas, do any fit?

Not enough food.
Preparing to swarm.
No room to lay

Any more ideas?
Cazza

 

[enrico]

Let's think about why queens stop laying and see if it applies to you. (Oh no, starting to sound like Rab....... shoot me now!)

Here are some ideas, do any fit?

Not enough food.
Preparing to swarm.
No room to lay

Any more ideas?
Cazza

Bang........god what have I done!