Mating nucs for beginners?

[domino]

Hi

Next year I'm going to start queen raising. I'm only planning on doing on a small scale as I learn. I'm thinking about six or so.

I'm going to try grafting, just because I want to learn how to do it.

I'm finding seeing the wood from the trees in terms of mating nuc options.

For a beginner which mating nuc would be less troublesome in terms of bee numbers, absconding etc

 

[B+.]

Hi

Next year I'm going to start queen raising. I'm only planning on doing on a small scale as I learn. I'm thinking about six or so.

I'm going to try grafting, just because I want to learn how to do it.

I'm finding seeing the wood from the trees in terms of mating nuc options.

For a beginner which mating nuc would be less troublesome in terms of bee numbers, absconding etc

They all do the job but often fall flat when the queen is mated (not enough space for her to lay for long).
Read this for an introduction to queen rearing http://coloss.org/beebook/I/queen-rearing/2/1

 

[sipa]

Use a standard 5/6 frame nuc.

Easier to manage all round and allows the new queen to settle properly into laying without disruption.

It's said this produces superior queens.

 

[Plenty of honey]

Mating Nucs, my trials in first year.

Use a standard 5/6 frame nuc.

Easier to manage all round and allows the new queen to settle properly into laying without disruption.

It's said this produces superior queens.

Ive just had a year of queen rearing and made my own mini mating nucs last winter. I converted new standard five frames in to half and milled down frames to fit. They worked well, but just like B + says, they tend to abscond if they get too full later in the summer if you get a hot spell. Mine were bigger than most and i found getting them populated was tricky at the start.
However i also used standard full sized Nucs and found that seems to give a more predictable result, with more room in the colony and less pressure on yourself to worry about overcrowding.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=12374&stc=1&d=1442528365


So this coming year, I am taking out the centre partition and converting them back to standard nucs and I am going to try the "miniplus"


http://www.golden-green.ca/bee-supply/mini-plus-nucs/


I really like these, because you can fit two mini frames together that fit directly in to a standard honey super for spring build up and population. You can then break them down and fill out the miniplus bodies, just like you would do when populating any other mating nuc. As the season progresses you can add one two or three bodies on top of the original, so you never get overcrowding.
You can also treat them like a nuc and requeen on hives by placing a whole miniplus over the top of a queenless hive and place a sheet of newspaper between the two. I prefer to catch the queens and use a push in cage, but the options are endless!!


Theres tons of books out there and if you want an easy method to use, then i personally think you should go for the Michael Palmer 10 plus 10 method.
Its all there to see and explained in depth when he did 4 talks at the national honey show in 2014. I used this method this year 5 times and i won't bother with anything else. Set it up so the bees do the work. After all as Mike says, their the professionals. Best of luck.

https://youtu.be/R7tinVIuBJ8

 

[sipa]

No need to buy the Mini Plus from Canada.

You can get them from here amongst others :

http://www.honingraat.co.uk/search?...ay=desc&search_query=mini+plus&submit_search=

they do a wooden version too if interested.

 

[domino]

Standard nuc seem to be the way to go then.

 

[Plenty of honey]

No need to buy the Mini Plus from Canada.

You can get them from here amongst others :

http://www.honingraat.co.uk/search?...ay=desc&search_query=mini+plus&submit_search=

they do a wooden version too if interested.

Thanks Sipa, oh yes their far too far away, i was just trying to show an example!!

 

[mbc]

No need to buy the Mini Plus from Canada.

You can get them from here amongst others :

http://www.honingraat.co.uk/search?...ay=desc&search_query=mini+plus&submit_search=

they do a wooden version too if interested.

UK supplier, also comes with a central divider so a "two in one" nuc, I've got quite a few and like them.

http://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/mini-bee-hive-mini-plus-mating-hive/

 

[domino]

UK supplier, also comes with a central divider so a "two in one" nuc, I've got quite a few and like them.

http://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/mini-bee-hive-mini-plus-mating-hive/

Funnily enough I went there to buy nucs, saw those and picked up a few.

 

[Plenty of honey]

:

UK supplier, also comes with a central divider so a "two in one" nuc, I've got quite a few and like them.

http://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/mini-bee-hive-mini-plus-mating-hive/

Like this idea. It looks like a standard divider for all "miniplus" hives so if you needed mores space you could go up with another divider in the next super extension i presume? Otherwise whats the difference between that and mini mating nucs, they all run out of space if you havent got lots of time!
Thanks for sharing this, i really really like this!!!!

 

[mbc]

Like this idea. It looks like a standard divider for all "miniplus" hives so if you needed mores space you could go up with another divider in the next super extension i presume? Otherwise whats the difference between that and mini mating nucs, they all run out of space if you havent got lots of time!

Makes more sense to expand into a full box than upwards by halves.

 

[Plenty of honey]

Makes more sense to expand into a full box than upwards by halves.

So Its a toss up between having extra space in each mini colonie or losing the space saving advantages of having 2 nucs in one box. Have you used them to go up in halves? whats you opinion about this? I know that in the autumn, if you've still got two queens, one in each side, you could harvest one queen, take away the central divider and then give the queen more room for stores and bees to over winter in. We know bees like to go up in nucs. i just like the idea of utilising one box for two nucs. The cost all adds up?

 

[Madge]

...
http://www.golden-green.ca/bee-supply/mini-plus-nucs/

I really like these, because you can fit two mini frames together that fit directly in to a standard honey super ...

I bought a mini-plus this year, and still have to try it out - but as a National-hive owner, I think I'm missing out on their dual function as mini frames and full-size frames as they seem to have been designed for Dadant shallows. Do you use Dadant shallows?

 

[mbc]

So Its a toss up between having extra space in each mini colonie or losing the space saving advantages of having 2 nucs in one box. Have you used them to go up in halves? whats you opinion about this? I know that in the autumn, if you've still got two queens, one in each side, you could harvest one queen, take away the central divider and then give the queen more room for stores and bees to over winter in. We know bees like to go up in nucs. i just like the idea of utilising one box for two nucs. The cost all adds up?

The divider goes to the bottom of the floor so some modifications would be necessary to go up still split in two. The advantage is as you say, rationalizing the boxes to overwinter and having the flexibility to easily split into low input cost small mating units again in the spring with the divider in place. I tend to overwinter them as two brood boxes, having harvested three of the four last queens and leaving them with one.

 

[Plenty of honey]

I bought a mini-plus this year, and still have to try it out - but as a National-hive owner, I think I'm missing out on their dual function as mini frames and full-size frames as they seem to have been designed for Dadant shallows. Do you use Dadant shallows?

Yes I indeed do use Dadant shallows as honey supers but, heres the great thing, I use Supers on my hives as normal for honey collection, (but incidentally not as extra brood space intentionally) and you can put two frames together from the "mini-plus' and put them in to a shallow super whether its on production hive or on a nuc. All you do for the nuc is make some mini supers to put on the top of your nucs, and in go two frames that span the length of a standard honey super frame.(five framed nuc therefore = 10 frames for Mini-Plus.) So for queen rearing and mini nuc work their very appealing if you have nucs, as they all fit.
As you can imagine last winter it took me a fair bit of work to make up 10 mini Nucs (2 x 5 Nuc boxes)and frames to go in them. However as i said i can easily take out the middle partition and use these as standard nucs and change over to the Mini Plus. My mate who's been using them for 2 years used to use another system in france called "triminnuc" which actually uses the same sized frames, so as before you could build these up then break them down for the mini nucs. however their like a slightly bigger shoe box and again absconding is the biggest problem.
He buys the body section (thats patented) and makes roofs and bases up, as it much cheaper!
He can't sing their virtues enough, but its french singing , so.........

 

[Plenty of honey]

The divider goes to the bottom of the floor so some modifications would be necessary to go up still split in two. The advantage is as you say, rationalizing the boxes to overwinter and having the flexibility to easily split into low input cost small mating units again in the spring with the divider in place. I tend to overwinter them as two brood boxes, having harvested three of the four last queens and leaving them with one.

Thanks very much for this info, very useful. I will try and talk more about these as i start with them next year. I am sure i will be asking some inane questions when i start using them, so thanks in advance!!

 

[Plenty of honey]

Drawing up frames for "Mini-Plus"

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=12390&stc=1&d=1443111292



So Just wanted to show you that if you want to drawn the mini-plus, like all mini mating nucs, you can either use the Nicot mini frames that are in plastic or the Single wooden frames. (Cadron in french)

The plastic can clip together, so you can put them in to a standard super to get them drawn up. The single wooden frames you can see, the super box has been made for a 6 framed Dadant super, so you can put 12 frames at right angles instead of using the mini frames of plastic. This one box takes them all, but not obviously at the same time. it's really that simple!

 

[Goran]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=12390&stc=1&d=1443111292



So Just wanted to show you that if you want to drawn the mini-plus, like all mini mating nucs, you can either use the Nicot mini frames that are in plastic or the Single wooden frames. (Cadron in french)

The plastic can clip together, so you can put them in to a standard super to get them drawn up. The single wooden frames you can see, the super box has been made for a 6 framed Dadant super, so you can put 12 frames at right angles instead of using the mini frames of plastic. This one box takes them all, but not obviously at the same time. it's really that simple!

Does it have to be plastic..

Maybe these below which is used at my neck of wood can give ideas.. On single or double mnucs..
I run single all the way and never again think of double, triple, quadri, etc..
Build yourself half frame of standard you use, more natural - bees have more natural cluster in such than in stretched 2-3-5 frame nucs.. Making is easy as kid's toys, and managing them is also so easily, value high.

Options and variations you can do with them are endless..

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=523&pictureid=2820

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=523&pictureid=2918

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=523&pictureid=2920

 

[Plenty of honey]

Does it have to be plastic..

Maybe these below which is used at my neck of wood can give ideas.. On single or double mnucs..
I run single all the way and never again think of double, triple, quadri, etc..
Build yourself half frame of standard you use, more natural - bees have more natural cluster in such than in stretched 2-3-5 frame nucs.. Making is easy as kid's toys, and managing them is also so easily, value high.

Options and variations you can do with them are endless..

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=523&pictureid=2820

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=523&pictureid=2918

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=523&pictureid=2920

Agreed Goran, the options are endless. Nothing to say the yours are any real difference, its just getting them built out i was demonstrating. There is the nice option with the Mini-Plus you can easily add more space to the box, by adding a second tier. Thats my opinion of one of the major bonus's. Don't know if you can do the same with yours? but in principle its the same. Its all about getting them built out as easily as you can, as quickly as you can, then breaking them down as easily as you can.
The old Brother Adams mating nuc was a 4 way mini nuc,(made from milled down frames like you suggest) it was a standard brood box divided in to four, with a movable division board feeder, meaning you can feed in the spring each side individually, in the autumn you can harvest a queen from one side, then move the division board feeder across to give that queen more room with her support staff to overwinter with more stores.
Whatever system you use, its good to make it as flexible as possible, unless you have lots of time so if it gets overcrowded you can remove brood, bees etc to avoid absconding. And no, it dosent have to be plastic, you can see form my first photo i built mine just like you suggested by milling down the ends. just like kids play toys, but for bigger boys and Girls lol.
I would say that any system that can give you this flexibility is good!

 

[rolande]

Agreed Goran, the options are endless. Nothing to say the yours are any real difference, its just getting them built out i was demonstrating.

Another option is to make some nuc boxes to take standard frames and a further set of boxes the same length which will take the mini plus frames. The key is that your standard frame will govern the length of the box and the mini-plus will govern the width.

With these boxes you can get a box of mini frames drawn out, easily, on top of a 'standard' nuc; of course, the mp frames are running 'warm way' on top of the standard frames set up 'cold way' but it's not an issue for these units. It's also possible to use the same arrangement to get reserve store combs filled ready for use if the mini-plus' start to get light for some reason rather than feeding them direct. Just another option which does work well but is no better than the interlocking frame method.