Mass selection vs individual selection for discussion

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Fusion_power

Field Bee
Joined
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Location
Hamilton, AL U.S.A.
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I thought it might be worth posting a thread about the differences between mass selection and individual selection. These are two very different genetic tools that have significantly different outcomes. As beekeepers, we tend to focus most on individual selection, i.e. picking out the best performer in a group to propagate the next generation of queens. Individual selection is an incredibly effective method of improving honeybees by picking outstanding colonies to produce drones and queens. It has one huge weakness which can negate most of the benefits. Individual selection strongly favors inbreeding. Picking 1 in 1000 or even higher ratios of selection invariably result in inbreeding at some stage. Avoiding inbreeding has therefore been a targeted goal of most breeding programs. This can be done via artificial insemination (AI) by choosing several hundred drones representing hundreds of colonies, collecting semen, then mixing it thoroughly before using it to inseminate queens. This method and other similar selection programs keep inbreeding at a minimum but at the same time limit the amount of genetic gain that can be made in the breeding population. Takeaway is that individual selection either produces high levels of inbreeding or else limit genetic gain.

Mass selection is a different approach that is implemented by choosing a very large population to start with, applying a strong selective pressure, then breeding from the survivors. This selection method is highly effective when breeding for disease or pest resistance. A good historical example is selection for trachea mite tolerance. When trachea mites began to decimate honeybees 100 years ago, beekeepers quickly realized that a few colonies were tolerant. There were no chemical treatments therefore beekeepers had no choice except to breed from the survivors. Notice the element of mass selection at work. There was a large population, a strong selective pressure was exerted, the survivors were used to produce the next generation. The result of mass selection was the entire population becoming resistant to trachea mites in just a few generations.

Think through the methods being used in breeding for varroa tolerance. Instead of applying the principles of mass selection, the breeding efforts are focused on individual selection with associated inherent weaknesses. The example of trachea mites clearly shows the path forward. Choose a large population, apply a strong selective pressure, and breed from the survivors. When survivors are clearly identified and the genetics have stabilized, they can be used to breed the survivor traits into susceptible lines that have other desirable traits such as high honey production, gentleness, winter survival in adverse climates, etc.

Now switch to the events that played out here in the Southeastern U.S. beginning about 1990. There was a huge population of feral colonies with A.M.Mellifera, A.M.Ligustica, and A.M.Carnica background genetics along with some novel genetics including A.M. Lamarckii from Egypt. Varroa were found and rapidly spread throughout the country. By 1993, most feral colonies were infested and began to die in late fall and early winter. Between 1994 and 2004, there were so few feral colonies that they were almost undetectable, but a few survived. In 2004, a few swarms started showing up that originated from feral colonies and had measurable levels of varroa tolerance. All the elements of mass selection were present except beekeeper selection. There was a huge starting population, very strong selection pressure was applied, and the survivors breed and reproduced.

What did beekeepers do during these years? They treated their bees to keep them alive. I used Apistan for the first time in 1994 after losing all but one colony to varroa over the winter of 1993/1994. I had split my one remaining colony into 3 using purchased queens. All beekeepers treated for mites, if they did not treat, their bees died. What was the effect of these managed colonies on decimated feral populations? They reversed the gene flow such that feral colonies mated with susceptible drones wiping out the ferals because their weak mite tolerance had been compromised. But there were some areas that had few to no beekeepers and therefore the only bees around were the ferals. These feral colonies were able to survive and over 10 years concentrated enough small effect genes to express some mite tolerance. In 2004, I caught a feral swarm and found that they had significant levels of mite tolerance. I was able to purchase some queens from Purvis Apiaries that had been highly selected for varroa tolerance. Their heritage was from the Primorski bees brought into the U.S. a few years earlier. I used the Purvis queens to produce drones and raised queens from my feral swarm queen to mate with the drones. For the last 11 years, I have bred from the survivors. The net result is that I have bees with high levels of varroa tolerance. They are the result of mass selection here in Alabama, and in the Primorski region.

Do you see the difference in the effect of mass selection vs individual selection? With mass selection, an entire population shifts to a new genetic combination while keeping inbreeding at a very low level.
 
. For the last 11 years, I have bred from the survivors. The net result is that I have bees with high levels of varroa tolerance. They are the result of mass selection here in Alabama, and in the Primorski region.

Do you see the difference in the effect of mass selection vs individual selection? With mass selection, an entire population shifts to a new genetic combination while keeping inbreeding at a very low level.[/QUOTE ]
Oh dear...it's carp fishing time again.
A population is a homogeneous group where any individual selected at random is a representative sample. Swarms of feral bees open mated with Tom Dick and harry are not a good breeding strategy
If you don't take samples and measure performance, anything else is just wishful thinking.
 
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. For the last 11 years, I have bred from the survivors. The net result is that I have bees with high levels of varroa tolerance. They are the result of mass selection here in Alabama, and in the Primorski region.

Do you see the difference in the effect of mass selection vs individual selection? With mass selection, an entire population shifts to a new genetic combination while keeping inbreeding at a very low level.[/QUOTE ]
Oh dear...it's carp fishing time again.
A population is a homogeneous group where any individual selected at random is a representative sample. Swarms of feral bees open mated with Tom Dick and harry are not a good breeding strategy
If you don't take samples and measure performance, anything else is just wishful thinking.
but they are a good breeding strategy for the bees because it works! (a few millions years of evidence)
and remember each colony has workers with genes from
tom00 to tom15. dick00 to dicknn and harry00 to harryxx
I dont think breeding out the genetic diversity within a colony is a good idea.

Delaplane, K. S., Pietravalle, S., Brown, M. A., & Budge, G. E. (2015). Honey Bee Colonies Headed by Hyperpolyandrous Queens Have Improved Brood Rearing Efficiency and Lower Infestation Rates of Parasitic Varroa Mites. PLoS ONE, 10(12), 1–8. http://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0142985
 
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Oh dear...it's carp fishing time again.
This time you are fishing in a different stream and have been caught by the game warden. Get out of that comfort zone and break out the books to find out why mass selection is desirable. If you think I'm wrong, dig up some articles to support your position. Better yet, email your genetics professor and ask him when mass selection is better than individual selection. This is what Kefuss did with his mite tolerant bees. I'm not challenging you to think like me, I'm challenging you to think about genetics beyond what you already know.
 
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If you design you breeding program wrong, it is then wrong.

With 20 hives it is impossible- to breed own stock. Result will be inbreeding.
Then it is beter to sit on your own comfort zone and buy good queens.

It goes well that 20 hives owner buy new queens every year and rear daughters from those queens.
 
This time you are fishing in a different stream and have been caught by the game warden. Get out of that comfort zone and break out the books to find out why mass selection is desirable. If you think I'm wrong, dig up some articles to support your position. Better yet, email your genetics professor and ask him when mass selection is better than individual selection. This is what Kefuss did with his mite tolerant bees. I'm not challenging you to think like me, I'm challenging you to think about genetics beyond what you already know.

Mass selection like you describe is just hoping for the best, cant see how there is any advantage over individual selection unless you either wont/cant put in the time to properly evaluate and cross the bees
 
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What is mass selection

There are plenty of different families (groups) . Them best individual will be taken from different group and mated together.
 
Foghorn, Read about mass selection and when it is appropriate. Modern genetics has focused too much on individual selection and nearly ignored mass selection. It leaves you with a gap kind of like a blind man who can't figure out what eyes are for.

When breeding cattle, individual selection will always be used. This is because the number of offspring a cow can produce is limited. Any plant or animal that can produce limited numbers of offspring should use individual selection methods. That leaves plants and animals capable of producing hundreds or even thousands of offspring as candidates for mass selection. This technique is commonly applied in plant breeding when selecting for specific desirable traits. It was used to select for drought tolerance in several crops such as maize. It has been used extensively to select for disease tolerance. One particular crop I studied was planted in a field of about 50 hectares. At the end of the season, less than 50 plants in that field survived. They were used to produce seed for the next generation. When the next crop was grown, over 1/4 of the plants survived. The process was repeated several more generations until all of the plants survived and thrived. If you want to read the history of a plant that was mass selected for disease tolerance, read about coffee.

Honeybees can produce thousands of offspring from a single queen. This makes them amenable to mass selection. Kefuss used mass selection to develop his varroa tolerant bees. My bees are the result of 11 years of mass selection. This does not mean individual selection should be discounted. It has a place in bee breeding, but it is not the only tool available for genetic improvement!
 
Foghorn, Read about mass selection and when it is appropriate. Modern genetics has focused too much on individual selection and nearly ignored mass selection. It leaves you with a gap kind of like a blind man who can't figure out what eyes are

Honeybees can produce thousands of offspring from a single queen. !

If you play with your imagination. Do you know any who rear thousands of queens from the one queen? Queen lays 1000 - 2000 eggs in a day, but who rears those queens and make all mating nucs?

That is not mass selection. And the weather of Britain is not suitable to that scale of queen rearing.
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but they are a good breeding strategy for the bees because it works! (a few millions years of evidence)
t]
This is true. However, they would be unproductive, stingy and swarmy colonies. I meant a successful strategy for improved performance. Nobody wants bees like that.
 
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When we look breeding history of Russian Bees, it sets us in front of crude facts.
USA invested huge resourges to breed the bee. It has been done 20 years now.

Europe has not accepted Russian bee into its honey industry. It has been found with tests, that its mite resistance is not better than European Carniolan strains. But either European varroa resistant breeds have found their way to productive honey industry.

However, the Russin bee story tells how vast resources are needed to breed mite resistant bee. Hobby beekeeper get mite resistant bees in few years, but why it does not succeed to professionals. Two hive owners get resistant bees even in one summer.


Everyone understand that it is not every boy's hobby. What you can do is to dream. No one can take dreams from you.
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but they are a good breeding strategy for the bees because it works! (a few millions years of evidence) ]

Breeding strategy... Who heck..

A human race has been on globe 4 million years.
Last Neardental men lived in Europe 20 000 years ago

Honey bee millions of years... Those 2 hive owners' forum logans.
Same guy asks, what is that liquid like stuff in brood combs...

Forget those millions of fiction years...because you have never remembered them.
 
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Foghorn, Read about mass selection and when it is appropriate. Modern genetics has focused too much on individual selection and nearly ignored mass selection. It leaves you with a gap kind of like a blind man who can't figure out what eyes are for.

When breeding cattle, individual selection will always be used. This is because the number of offspring a cow can produce is limited. Any plant or animal that can produce limited numbers of offspring should use individual selection methods. That leaves plants and animals capable of producing hundreds or even thousands of offspring as candidates for mass selection. This technique is commonly applied in plant breeding when selecting for specific desirable traits. It was used to select for drought tolerance in several crops such as maize. It has been used extensively to select for disease tolerance. One particular crop I studied was planted in a field of about 50 hectares. At the end of the season, less than 50 plants in that field survived. They were used to produce seed for the next generation. When the next crop was grown, over 1/4 of the plants survived. The process was repeated several more generations until all of the plants survived and thrived. If you want to read the history of a plant that was mass selected for disease tolerance, read about coffee.

Honeybees can produce thousands of offspring from a single queen. This makes them amenable to mass selection. Kefuss used mass selection to develop his varroa tolerant bees. My bees are the result of 11 years of mass selection. This does not mean individual selection should be discounted. It has a place in bee breeding, but it is not the only tool available for genetic improvement!


Mass selection has only been used to get together all the plants required to start crop breeding, an awful lot of effort goes into evaluating and selecting individual lines to be part of the new variety produced after the first lot of plants are culled. Otherwise all you get is something that survives when you want it to thrive unless you are extremely lucky
 
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As far as I know in beekeeping, artificial insemination is essential to breed forward the bees. Then a big stock means that inbreeding does not ruin the genepool.

Normal beekeepers have not afford to keep masses of bee strains, like they do in USA.

I have seen too, that if I cross all kind of selected bee strains together, the crossing return to the original bee form: Swarmy and defensive. They will return to normal mongrels.

Against varroa a beebreeder must pick from somewhere genes, which make the bees identify mites and mite larvae as enemy.
Like Africanized bees in Amerika, they may have huge amount of mites. Nothing is sure.

Like Russian bees, they died first for varroa. I do not know, where breeding is now.

Yeah, arses up from bench
. Everybody starts to breed their own stocks, but the whole idea is humbug and imagination
 
I used the Purvis queens to produce drones and raised queens from my feral swarm queen to mate with the drones. For the last 11 years, I have bred from the survivors.

Fusion_power
I presume your new queens are open mated with the Purvis drones?
Your must then have an isolated mating site?
How many of us can access a mating site which is isolated from other beekeepers / feral drones?
 
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My professional friend bought Gefus queens and reared 10 own hives. The bees were so mad, that he must kill the hives. He did not found mites from hives, but they were impossible to nurse.
 

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