Making nucs?

[Nick Lang]

So I've watched the Patterson (Cushman) method of making up two frame nucs. And read lots of different articles/videos about making various size nucs.

I was thinking of making up two nucs.....I've looked in my two hives and both are going well....got about four/five frames of brood...and about five full frames of stores... they're very full on the stores....also got capped drone cells in there too....no sign of any queen cells or swarm activity yet.....the frames are well covered with bees and they've been building extra comb everywhere....so I've cut back all the excess comb and put a super on each to give them more room.

What's the best way to make up some nucs????...I was wondering about buying in some mated F1 queen's to ensure good prolific queen's??.....or should I let the nuc make their own QC?

Cheers

 

[RichardK]

First off I'll put my hands up and admit I'm no expert! I'm assuming that you have nectar sources currently available your way, in which case I'd be removing 2 or 3 of those 5 frames of stores and replacing either with drawn comb or foundation. When those hives are at boiling over point (8 frames or more of brood & quite populous) then look at making up a nuc from each. This year I'm letting my nucs make there own queens, however, if you want a quick build up then buying in mated queens would be great.

There are various other ways of making splits you might like to read up on - pagden split & a demaree for example.

 

[Ian123]

If you can afford to makes the nucs reasonably strong then do so but young bees are what you are after. I suggest 2 good frames of sealed brood. Also you suggest letting the nucs raise their own. Unless they are absolutely rammed with bees I wouldn’t. Small nucs probably won’t raise the best queens.

 

[Swarm]

Leave them two capped stores frames and replace the others as advised the nest is plugged out at the moment.
Give them a super as well as there will be nectar flowing in this week.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Take out some of the stores and keep for later, replace with drawn comb or foundation, let the colonies build up to seven or eight frames of brood then order a couple of queens. when they arrive, make up two nucs with two or three frames of brood and the stores you've saved, make sure there's laying space in the frames and try to select emerging brood. Introduce the queens as soon as you've made up the nucs - if there's not a good flow on, feed a few pints of 1:1 syrup to to both. Leave the candy covered for 24 hours before removing.

 

[Nick Lang]

So.....I've been into both my hives..... they're building well....so I've ordered two queens from Black Mountain Honey.
When they arrive should I be making each nuc with bees from each hive (rather than mixing).

Also it has been suggested taping over the fondant in the queen cage to stop the bees getting through and killing her..... leaving her tapped up for 7 days.....inspect, check for QC and then removing the tape....is this the best way?....or should I just make sure I use sealed brood and put her straight in?.... don't want to have the queen killed obviously.

Cheers

 

[Erichalfbee]

With the queen in your pocket. Make each nuc up from each hive. One frame of food. Two frames of brood, emerging if possible but definitely capped. Two empty drawn frames or one drawn and one foundation. Shake in a couple of frames of bees. Put new queen in her cage, fondant tab in place, between two brood frames. Close up.
Return in 24 hours and take the tab off.
Job done

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

it has been suggested taping over the fondant in the queen cage to stop the bees getting through and killing her..... leaving her tapped up for 7 days.....inspect, check for QC and then removing the tape....is this the best way?

I wouldn't say so, I've found from experience that taping the candy for more than 24 hours gives more failures, I usually leave the candy taped overnight at the most and have a pretty high success rate

 

[Nick Lang]

So sods law..... beautiful morning ... glorious sunshine....no postman....the moment the postie arrives with my Queen's....it pisses down with rain.

Question is.....the weather is supposed to be fine tomorrow morning...and am hoping for a break in the weather today.....how long can the queen's stay in the cage before there is a problem? Will they be okay untill tomorrow morning?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Perfectly ok.
put them in a dark kitchen drawer and forget about them till they are in your pocket

 

[drex]

I put a drop or two of water on the cage before putting them away. No problem for a few days, but obviously the shorter the time she cannot lay, the better

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Question is.....the weather is supposed to be fine tomorrow morning...and am hoping for a break in the weather today.....how long can the queen's stay in the cage before there is a problem? Will they be okay untill tomorrow morning?

days, weeks even.
I know of one bee farmer who ordered bees from Cyprus, they got lost in the post and turned up a month later, all but one survived

 

[Nick Lang]

Cheers folks....I figured they would be fine till tomorrow...but always nice to hear...ta

 

[Nick Lang]

As an update:
I have today removed the empty Queen cages...so fingers crossed both hives accept the queen's.....will leave them till the end of the week and have a peek to make sure everything looks good.

One thing I did notice is that one hive is a lot more busy....lots of coming and going.
The other hive is more quiet....there are bees inside on the frames....but no flying bees coming and going at all.....I guess they lost a lot of the flyers back to the donor hive....should I worry or do anything to this hive?

 

[drex]

Provided it has stores and enough bees left to cover the brood no worries. I do occasionally have to top up the bees shaking a couple more frames in after a day or two.

 

[Martimart]

Not sure if i'm missing something or if i'm over simplifying it, when i'm wanting to make up a Nuc, i simply take 2 or 3 frames from a hive that I'd like to replicate, 2 of the frames at least 80% sealed brood and the rest BIAS and stores, put them in a Nuc box with the bee's on and lid on and thats it. Go back a week or so later and i'll normally find 4 or 5 Queen Cells, go through the 3 frames quickly and then remove all but 1 and close up and just then check again in a weeks time, if i'm happy a queen has emerged and i'd now not expect to see any eggs or larvae yet, I may swap a frame for another frames of brood (very rarely) otherwise i'll just leave them alone again for a few weeks for the queen to get mated and normally Bobs your uncle.

 

[Swarm]

Best to get a lot of nurse bees into the box, a small nuc can build cells and raise a queen but a well fed queen requires a lot of nurse bees.

 

[drex]

Quite. I would normally shake in a few extra frames of bees

 

[Nick Lang]

The queen is loose in there now on the frames...she was bought in from Black Mountain Honey as already mated...when I made up the nucs four days ago I did shake in some extra frames of bees... are you saying to shake in some more frames of bees now?
Won't they fight now?

 

[ericbeaumont]

are you saying to shake in some more frames of bees now?

You're conflating two ideas, Nick: to make a nuc to accept a laying queen or to make a nuc to produce its own queen. You don't need to add more.

over simplifying it

Small nucs probably won’t raise the best queens.

The QCs you will find are emergency, Marti, and as the colony is weak in nurse bees I'd say it's more than probable, but most likely that you'll end up with a sub-optimal scrub queen.

Ted Hooper wrote years ago in his book Bees & Honey about the idea of setting up a 5-frame nuc to produce a queen, and said he only mentioned it to condemn it.