Mad Bees

[pargyle]

Horrible bees are horrible to requeen imo. Good luck!

That is so true ... that is what we were doing with the colony from hell last year ... it was a beginners colony sold to her as 'manageable and productive' . She was really put off by her first couple of inspections when the bees were murderous. We put a new queen in there but I understand the lady has lost the colony over winter and is not going to keep bees any more.

It's really sad but a trap that new beekeepers fall in to ... buying bees without knowledge of what you are buying and the experience to cope with a colony like this rarely has a successful outcome. Vile bees are very off putting.

 

[birdsandbees]

I've currently got three like this, not excessively stingy but all in the air! I have put this down to them wanting to swarm recently (have now split) and that the weather had cooled and they weren't able to forage on the huge amount of OSR that surrounds them, until a few weeks ago they were an absolute pleasure to work.
only ever had one that I was temped to snuff out as they were stingtastic and followed you half way home! she was snuffed out after carrying out a split with her in it and I took a gamble one of her Daughters taking over the original colony, She and her offspring are great, nice tempered and productive.

 

[Brigsy]

Is it even possible for a 2 hive owner to raise calm queens for their own stock, from original bought in good stock queens? Or is it always going to get worse a couple of generations down the line?

Here's me thinking that I would raise a couple each year for my own use. Is this just not a viable option?

 

[REDWOOD]

I would make a nuc from a colony that has good traits and when it has grown considerably I would unit it with the over defencive hive that has been queenless for three weeks, or just shake the buggers out.
If you try to raise a nuc from defencive bees they will let her out, let her lay and then kill her so they can raise their own queens

 

[REDWOOD]

Read this
http://beekeepinglikeagirl.com/how-to-tell-if-your-bees-are-africanized/

 

[mbc]

Is it even possible for a 2 hive owner to raise calm queens for their own stock, from original bought in good stock queens? Or is it always going to get worse a couple of generations down the line?

Here's me thinking that I would raise a couple each year for my own use. Is this just not a viable option?

It's what most people do and is achievable, open mating virgins involves quite a bit of pot luck even for people with loads of bees and areas flooded with drones from hundreds of hives. When things do go bad though and a colony turns out unacceptably aggressive then a plan b is needed.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Intriguing, second generation carnies or buckies was going to be my guess, do tell.

No, they are not.
I might expect that from second generation of Buckfast and I am prepared for that by replacing the queen in good time

 

[drex]

Have always had local mongrels. By culling the bad and encouraging the good, their temper has steadily improved over all, in just a few years. I no longer suffer followers. Still get the few whose behaviour is not acceptable, and those queens are then culled. In this way anyone can improve the nature of their stock without buying in or II etc

 

[Brigsy]

Interesting thanks.

 

[mbc]

Have always had local mongrels. By culling the bad and encouraging the good, their temper has steadily improved over all, in just a few years. I no longer suffer followers. Still get the few whose behaviour is not acceptable, and those queens are then culled. In this way anyone can improve the nature of their stock without buying in or II etc

That's the way☺ if everyone did the same we'd be on a positive path.

 

[drex]

However, you do have to be ruthless. At first it seemed wrong to purposefully do in a queen, and I think therein is the barrier for most people. Queens can soon be replaced, the bees do it all the time, and I have done this without any great queen rearing techniques. It is only now that I intend to try some grafting for the first time this year!

 

[mbc]

I agree, culling the bad ones is a quicker route to success than merely breeding from the best.

 

[Brigsy]

For a two hive owner then, ruthless elimination of bad queens, grafting and raising a small number of queens into apidea, to then only bring on the queens with most desirable qualities from what you have, seems a way forward without messing up limited honey production?

 

[thorn]

I've currently got three like this, not excessively stingy but all in the air! I have put this down to them wanting to swarm recently (have now split) and that the weather had cooled and they weren't able to forage on the huge amount of OSR that surrounds them, until a few weeks ago they were an absolute pleasure to work.

If they've been foraging on OSR, that might explain it. Over the years there have been a number of posts suggesting that OSR makes bees angry. Indigestion perhaps?

 

[stilllearning]

So why are they bad queens ??? Because you can't play with them wearing just a t-shirt and shorts ! They are defending their property..
When buying queens what do people want...a nice temper, good honey getter and not prone to swarming. Basically everything that WE want , traits which benefit US , which is fair enough if you want a couple in the garden but for the good of the species? Ferrell colonies are all but gone , we know this , mainly because of varroa. This kept at least some of the gene pool wild, natural selection if you like , now without that we're relying on Joe blogs down the road who's an "expert" and every time a new queen is bought the clock gets restarted. Not good news in my opinion.
Light the smoker take a deep breath and get on with it, all bees can be got under control,

 

[philipm]

So why are they bad queens ??? Because you can't play with them wearing just a t-shirt and shorts ! They are defending their property..
When buying queens what do people want...a nice temper, good honey getter and not prone to swarming. Basically everything that WE want , traits which benefit US , which is fair enough if you want a couple in the garden but for the good of the species? Ferrell colonies are all but gone , we know this , mainly because of varroa. This kept at least some of the gene pool wild, natural selection if you like , now without that we're relying on Joe blogs down the road who's an "expert" and every time a new queen is bought the clock gets restarted. Not good news in my opinion.
Light the smoker take a deep breath and get on with it, all bees can be got under control,

You've obviously never had really bad queens.When you come away from every inspection with loads of stings, have so many bees covering your veil that its a job to see,get stung and buzzed by the bees when you are working not even close to the hive. Thats bad queens and time to requeen i used to be of the opinion that I could get things under control after trying for a few years I realised some colonies are a lost cause.Also is it fair on other beekeepers to put your drones out to contibute to the gene pool.

 

[pargyle]

You've obviously never had really bad queens.When you come away from every inspection with loads of stings, have so many bees covering your veil that its a job to see,get stung and buzzed by the bees when you are working not even close to the hive. Thats bad queens and time to requeen i used to be of the opinion that I could get things under control after trying for a few years I realised some colonies are a lost cause.Also is it fair on other beekeepers to put your drones out to contibute to the gene pool.

Yes ... there are some colonies that just have to be re-queened, there is no pleasure in handling bees like that - indeed, in my view, they are the genetically disparate bees that have no place in beekeeping. If they exist in the wild so be it - but, as beekeepers, this is a genetic trait that we can all do without. I've only seen this extreme behaviour once and frankly, if I never see another colony like that again it will be no great loss. Very unpleasant.

 

[madasafish]

My simple rule of thumb: If I cannot walk around a hive in T shirt and shorts, cut the grass round the hive or strim the grass under the hives .. without being stung , then the Queen has to go.

That's before considering other aspects like running , disease etc..

 

[Tremyfro]

My simple rule of thumb: If I cannot walk around a hive in T shirt and shorts, cut the grass round the hive or strim the grass under the hives .. without being stung , then the Queen has to go.

That's before considering other aspects like running , disease etc..

I agree...I don't want bees which fly up as soon as you lift the lid...nor do I want bees that race around on the frames. If I have a particularly nice queen that I would want daughters from...then making up some nucs with a frame with eggs...seems the easiest route. It doesn't depend on my inept attempts at grafting...and the bees are happy with the queen they have made. I have two new colonies which will be requeened as they are not steady on the comb and get into the air during inspections.

 

[Swarm]

As long as there is a mixed soup gene pool of drones flying about, there will always be uncertainty.