Location North Hampshire - Bees struggling

[RoseCottage]

2 weeks ago my 2 hives had just started to get themselves ready for spring. They were running behind by about a month I felt.

Both hives had eggs, larvae, and sealed brood. Although only across 3 frames at best. They had food and although reasonably small I could make the assumption it was only due to their environment being in slumber.

I have left them 2 weeks to enable them to build up free from my unnecessary interference.

So today at 2 I went to my hives - the weather has been warm with a slight breeze.

I opened the first hive and there appeared to be a normal amount of bees in the hive and entering and leaving. I have no rape around the immediate area but have plenty of hedgerows now in bloom.

I went through the brood box and came across 2 frames of sealed brood - 3 sides only. No sign of a queen or eggs and no sign of a build up. I spotted some sign of chalkbrood but not much.

I conclude that the queen is not in the hive and yet there were no emergency cells. So I think there are 2 possibilities:
1. I lost her at the last visit when I cleaned the hive floor
or
2. She has died between the 2 visits and quite recently

I think that 2 is more likely as there were eggs at the last visit and if I had lost her then after a day I assume the bees would have started to establish emergency queen cells.

In my second hive the situation is a little better but not dramatically so. I spotted the queen and have 3 full frames of eggs, larvae, and sealed brood.
Once again the build up in the last 2 weeks has not really happened despite the fact that the weather has been pretty good, by far the best we have had this year.

I saw the queen in my second colony actively examining comb in search of places to lay eggs.

So I have decided to leave the remaining winter food stores on the colonies.

I have also decided to take a frame of eggs and a little sealed brood from the second hive and put it in the first hive (placed next to the strongest seam of bees).

Now I know that there is a risk of simply negatively impacting the second hive and that the transfer of eggs to the first hive might not be enough to retrieve the situation but I have decided to try this rather than a combination.

Most of the brood has hatched on the the frame I took and so I am hoping that the queen can quickly make up the loss in the second colony - it being a 3 day set back.

I will inspect again next weekend but wonder if anyone else is experiencing similar situations or whether I am a special case...

All thoughts welcome,
Sam

 

[Tom Bick]

The test frame was the right thing to do and will confirm yes or no regarding a queen.

 

[user 6228]

2 weeks ago my 2 hives had just started to get themselves ready for spring. They were running behind by about a month I felt.

Both hives had eggs, larvae, and sealed brood. Although only across 3 frames at best. They had food and although reasonably small I could make the assumption it was only due to their environment being in slumber.

I have left them 2 weeks to enable them to build up free from my unnecessary interference.

So today at 2 I went to my hives - the weather has been warm with a slight breeze.

I opened the first hive and there appeared to be a normal amount of bees in the hive and entering and leaving. I have no rape around the immediate area but have plenty of hedgerows now in bloom.

I went through the brood box and came across 2 frames of sealed brood - 3 sides only. No sign of a queen or eggs and no sign of a build up. I spotted some sign of chalkbrood but not much.

I conclude that the queen is not in the hive and yet there were no emergency cells. So I think there are 2 possibilities:
1. I lost her at the last visit when I cleaned the hive floor
or
2. She has died between the 2 visits and quite recently

I think that 2 is more likely as there were eggs at the last visit and if I had lost her then after a day I assume the bees would have started to establish emergency queen cells.

In my second hive the situation is a little better but not dramatically so. I spotted the queen and have 3 full frames of eggs, larvae, and sealed brood.
Once again the build up in the last 2 weeks has not really happened despite the fact that the weather has been pretty good, by far the best we have had this year.

I saw the queen in my second colony actively examining comb in search of places to lay eggs.

So I have decided to leave the remaining winter food stores on the colonies.

I have also decided to take a frame of eggs and a little sealed brood from the second hive and put it in the first hive (placed next to the strongest seam of bees).

Now I know that there is a risk of simply negatively impacting the second hive and that the transfer of eggs to the first hive might not be enough to retrieve the situation but I have decided to try this rather than a combination.

Most of the brood has hatched on the the frame I took and so I am hoping that the queen can quickly make up the loss in the second colony - it being a 3 day set back.

I will inspect again next weekend but wonder if anyone else is experiencing similar situations or whether I am a special case...

All thoughts welcome,
Sam

Having been saved by chance from being in the same boat, (I found the queen on the paving slabs by the hive, 10 minutes later!!!) we have taken steps to try not to do this again.

We try to have a table next to the hive(better for the back) when doing inspections. If we are doing an operation where a box is being lifted that may have the queen in it, we have a white sheet on the floor between the table and the hive, so that you can more easily spot the queen.

Good luck

Also in North Hampshire
Derek

 

[richardbees]

Sam
I can see why you put that frame with eggs in....but it's going to take 5/6 weeks before new Q starts laying then you're almost into August before new foraging workers, .so I suggest you either buy and introduce a mated Q or unite that colony on top of the one with a laying Q.
Richard

 

[Tom Bick]

August ?? Lets not wish the season away just when its starting.

Don’t spend any money until you can confirm queen right or not otherwise you will be wasting money.

 

[richardbees]

Tom
He'll know tomorrow if he's Q right....
...but surely you agree he's better off spending £35 on an instant laying Q?

At least he then he stands a chance of a honey harvest this year !

(Sam, Trust me, Richard)

 

[Tom Bick]

The test frame will confirm if the hive has a queen or not after that all options are available.

 

[RoseCottage]

Richard,
Your point is well made. Queenless hive creates queen cell ...16days till she pops out, then say 10 days for mating, then 3 weeks for workers. It is a lot of lost time.
Late June for new brood, if all went well.

I am interested in getting a couple of docile queens but don't know where from at this time of year.

I'll give them a week and then will review options.
All the best,
Sam

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sam
I can see why you put that frame with eggs in....but it's going to take 5/6 weeks before new Q starts laying then you're almost into August before new foraging workers, .so I suggest you either buy and introduce a mated Q or unite that colony on top of the one with a laying Q.
Richard

What - put a new queen in before you're sure they are Q-?

Unite - may be a good idea once you know the queen sitouation

Don’t spend any money until you can confirm queen right or not otherwise you will be wasting money.

Tom
He'll know tomorrow if he's Q right....

Will he? if they start building a Q/C then yes they are Q- but if they don't then they could either be or Q+ Q-

 

[oliver90owner]

There may well be a queen present - perhaps nosemic.

Can you really trust someone whose maths is that bad?

Certainly a laying queen would be a much better option, but as I see it uniting, if healthy, is likely the better option and buying in a mated queen much later when a decent split can be made. As far as a honey crop is concerned, that would likely be the best way of securing one. The winter OSR will be done and dusted before the hives are strong enough. I am not banking on any decent honey crop this year; if it happens, it happens.

 

[galileo]

On balance, and certainly if there's no sign of improvement in the possibly Q- box next weekend, I think I'd let the girls read a bit of newsprint & unite them. (I'm presuming they aren't too far apart, spacially, and that there's no sign of disease in either the failing or struggling colonies.)

The rationale is that one colony with improved prospects is a better deal than 2 reduced. When it's built up to bursting and if it's not too late in the season, you could then split and, in theory, end up with 2 colonies fit for wintering, one with a new and hopefully vigorous queen.

Either way, fingers crossed for you.

 

[Mike a]

Sam

Trying to give small colonies TLC is all well and good but its not rewarding if they fail, I lost four late swarms last year which failed to get mated queens instead of just combining them as I should of. I'd suggest combining them and then set up a bait hive and keep your fingers crossed for a passing swarm.

 

[IBeeHere]

Richard,
Your point is well made. Queenless hive creates queen cell ...16days till she pops out, then say 10 days for mating, then 3 weeks for workers. It is a lot of lost time.
Late June for new brood, if all went well.

I am interested in getting a couple of docile queens but don't know where from at this time of year.

I'll give them a week and then will review options.
All the best,
Sam

If you decide to go down the requeening route there are a couple of suppliers near you around Andover, there is Beckys bees on outskirts of Andover and Thornes at Stockbridge both not to far from you.

 

[richardbees]

If you decide to go down the requeening route there are a couple of suppliers near you around Andover, there is Beckys bees on outskirts of Andover and Thornes at Stockbridge both not to far from you.


Sam, i suggest you re-queen - these are reliable sources

good luck, Richard

 

[Pendragon]

keep us posted

A fascinating thread with the different solutions - please keep us posted to know what you decide and what happens next. I'm a newbee so keen to learn.
Good luck,
Pendragon

 

[BeeJayBee]

If you decide to go down the requeening route there are a couple of suppliers near you around Andover, there is Beckys bees on outskirts of Andover and Thornes at Stockbridge both not to far from you.

If you decide to go down the requeening route there are a couple of suppliers near you around Andover, there is Beckys bees on outskirts of Andover and Thornes at Stockbridge both not to far from you.


Sam, i suggest you re-queen - these are reliable sources

One of those companies is selling queens imported from Argentina. Wouldn't it be better, if you're going to send somebody to a particular vendor, you could find somebody who's selling more local bees?

 

[RoseCottage]

I will mull all advice over...many thanks.

I have been planning to re-queen this year anyway as last year we had 6 hives from hell.
However, both remaining colonies (after some losses and combinations) had young queens. Their colony behaviour was a little better but not what you would call pleasant.

I had spoken to a local bee farmer who suggested I call him in May. I will make that call and try to give myself options. I have only tried to introduce 1 queen in a cage and she was killed through the cage.

Better luck next time.
roll on Saturday for my next inspection...

All the best,
Sam