local bees and buckfast queen

[Bryanthebee]

With another year lost swarm again i though i was on top of it this year but lost a swarm again.
a few facters but the main one was the bad weather which hamperd routine inspections.
I have come to the thought that all that rain with good stores congested hive, as soon as the sun came out swam, because they were kept in for so long.
the question is this by leaving the selected queen cells hatch i have ended up with bad temperd bees again this year.
now do i keep buying queens every year or keep trying my luck in the hope off a good queen may come through and then if bad re-queen?
Its a little bit frustrating when a lot of areas round the country can just let the queens get on with it still have a good queen most times.
Two years we have had bees and every time we go with swarm cells we end up with very bad temperd bees that get worst each day that passes. all thoughts welcome any one else have this problem. do other strains of be other than buckfast have the same problem, or is it just my area of local bee that does not mix well when breading with my queens?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes well there's the valleys girls for you - always spoiling for a fight!
Apparently second generation Buckfast crosses can be a bit vicious - why don't you try re queening with a more indigenous strain. Introduced dark Welsh queen this year and they are sooo laid back (and she's a prolific layer).

 

[Elaine]

We started off with a Buckfast colony and queen last year - and were a bit concerned about their reputation of producing bad tempered daughters - but (touch wood!) our 'daughter' queens have also produced very mild mannered colonies. Don't know what the local drone population are, but so far so good

I don't know what to suggest regarding your colony - could it just be environmental? Is there something about the apiary, or the time of day etc that you visit? Maybe a local queen would be teh way to go - although when I had to split my colony last year - and tried to introduce a new queen - they wouldn't have any of it - and killed her - so I just let them get on with it themselves!

 

[farbee]

Same here my 2nd generation buckfast seem nice and gentle too. In fact behave just like their Mum.

Luck I guess. What do you mean exactly by bad tempered i.e. how bad tempered are they.

Only option if it keeps happening would be to try different strain (is my unexpert guess).

 

[Bryanthebee]

all has bee well here untill the new strain come through, and tip the scale, the bad temperd is when they hitting my vail, loose on top of the frames, making inspections diffcult.
they have started following and this is just the beggining last year they where hell and i see all the traits comming through the same, so i dont want to wait untill its very bad because it was unbearable.
it was taking twice as long just to go through a hive not good, but the honey was.

 

[Skyhook]

Same here my 2nd generation buckfast seem nice and gentle too. In fact behave just like their Mum.

Luck I guess. What do you mean exactly by bad tempered i.e. how bad tempered are they.

Only option if it keeps happening would be to try different strain (is my unexpert guess).

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence about first crosses being bad- but not always.

I suspect it depends what the cross is. If buckfast are proving incompatible with your local drones, try a different strain, eg Amm or carniolan. Probably the best solution would be to see if you can get queens from a local breeder with nice tempered bees.

As for the swarming- I've come to the conclusion that if I need to inspect I need to- and light rain actually seems to keep the bees calmer!

 

[madasafish]

My buckfast/scots/carnie crosses second generation are very easy going.

 

[CB008]

I am not sure that it is quite a simple as that. Three of my colonies went really, really agressive this year. Anyway, I got in some new queens last weekend and guess what, the bad colonies were mild as anything so it turns out the new queens were not needed. I have requeened, however, as I will get younger queens but I am still not sure why they got so aggressive as I have had the same or simliar conditions (failing queens etc) in the previous year yet they never got nasty. The good thing about all of this is that, having experienced such aggression with them waiting outside the house even, very littel will phase me in future. The trick with such aggressive bees is to go in with full armour so that they cannot get their stings through.

 

[Polyanwood]

I am not sure that it is quite a simple as that. [\QUOTE]

Never a truer word. The genetics of temperament are complicated. A lot to do with drones. I hope everyone with mean bees is culling the drone brood in those colonies.

 

[Bryang]

Bryan the Bee and I are partners in the bees we look after. the first time the bees became a problem we asked a local beek with many years experiance for help. He was very emphatic that he preffered vicious bees and he guranteed we would not get within 15mtrs of his hive. he maintains this strain to protect his hives from vandals. So I think our queens are possably mating with his drones.
Bryan

 

[VEG]

Must be mad to put up with bees that nasty.

 

[Alabamaeee]

Must have a really good bee suit too!

 

[For want of a better word]

I am not sure that it is quite a simple as that. [\QUOTE]

Never a truer word. The genetics of temperament are complicated. A lot to do with drones. I hope everyone with mean bees is culling the drone brood in those colonies.

I am not sure that it is quite a simple as that.

I expect drones do play a part..... culling is possibly not the only answer!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Bryan the Bee and I are partners in the bees we look after. the first time the bees became a problem we asked a local beek with many years experiance for help. He was very emphatic that he preffered vicious bees and he guranteed we would not get within 15mtrs of his hive.

Ah! I think i've heard of him - that would be daft Dai the nutter then!

 

[Polyanwood]

Ah! I think i've heard of him - that would be daft Dai the nutter then!

. funny. I have often heard beekeepers say that they think mean bees give more honey

 

[Skyhook]

I have often heard beekeepers say that they think mean bees give more honey

I've heard that. 2 possibilities spring to mind- either they are more industrious, or they rob other hives more. Or they're like bankers, and its a bit of both.

.

 

[Swarm]

Or it's a load of rubbish.

As for this clown and his bees, let's just hope his apiary is well and truly out of the way.

It also seems like your problem lies very close to home ^.

 

[Bryanthebee]

Yes it could be a problem and he has had them around for 30 years.
The apiary is in the local area of a village with at least 8-10 hives, he does not inspect them, just takes the honey at the end of the season, which he says he lets them get on with it the bees that is.
have some new queen lined up, so the hunt for a compatable strain continues and may be an answer to the buckfast second generation that we have.

 

[Skyhook]

Yes it could be a problem and he has had them around for 30 years.
The apiary is in the local area of a village with at least 8-10 hives, he does not inspect them, just takes the honey at the end of the season, which he says he lets them get on with it the bees that is.
have some new queen lined up, so the hunt for a compatable strain continues and may be an answer to the buckfast second generation that we have.

Is there much foul brood around you?

 

[Bryang]

Is there much foul brood around you?

Not that we,ve heard of. The only beek that we know of close to us is the one with the nasty bees. His apiary is in the next valley to the west of us, which is approx 2to 3 miles as the birds fly but 3 to 4 miles following the terrain. Why do you ask ?