Loads of food/honey hive died

[suetheramble]

Anyone no why my friends bees died? They were in a tight cluster because it was so cold. I know they do not break the cluster in cold weather but there was honey in the cone behind them and all around them but the bees died with the usual bottom sticking out of empty cone. I do not see anything could have been done to help them. Discuss?

 

[Outlander]

How big was the cluster if too small they would have had a problem keeping the cluster warm? People would need more info to answer your questioned I feel.

 

[o.stjohn]

Just found 3 out of 4 of mine died - all were small|(ish) so I guess unable to keep warm. All had (and had been taking) fondant so I guess isolation starvation was the cause. Hopefully the 2 I'm going to look at tomorrow will still be alive.
When will spring start?

 

[For want of a better word]

Survival of the fittest?

Disheartening, but the non surviving colony, for whatever reason, will not be dispersing its genes into the gene pool, and possibly that may be a good thing.

I very much doubt if it was the beekeepers "fault"

 

[Finman]

.
Tracheal mite use to kill cluster so that they die on food stores.

.

Die for cold in UK?

Your country is not that cold. There is something else too in it.
But perhaps, a small cluster, big empty space, mesh floor open and bees are tired to live any more.



Nosema kills too.

 

[richardbees]

Sue and stjohn

It could be your colonies just weren't big enough to over winter successfully....it needs a certain critical mass of bees to be able to survive which you'll learn from experience.
The usual solution is to unite two smallish colonies in the Autumn....

Don't beat yourself - we're in the middle of an unusual 12 months' weather.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Just found 3 out of 4 of mine died - all were small|(ish) so I guess unable to keep warm. All had (and had been taking) fondant so I guess isolation starvation was the cause. Hopefully the 2 I'm going to look at tomorrow will still be alive.
When will spring start?

lots of variables so what was the brood box size?, OMF or solid?, Monitor Board in/out?, vented or unvented Crowndboard, raised by Matchsticks etc, insulated quilt, extra insulation (what) , whch varroa treatment and when

 

[susbees]

Sue and stjohn

it needs a certain critical mass of bees to be able to survive which you'll learn from experience.

Don't beat yourself - we're in the middle of an unusual 12 months' weather.

Lots of very experienced beekeepers are reporting smaller than usual cluster sizes. Too small a cluster can't keep warm enough in a full box (or box plus). Poor matings or old queens not replaced, drone layers failing to make winter bees or too few winter bees. Finding bees with their heads in cells unless there's no food above or in reach is not starvation...it's how they clustered tight to keep warm.

Hard lessons this last season - but will shake out the weak genes, and the less committed save-the-bees types. Of which OStJ isn't one...

 

[itma]

...
I very much doubt if it was the beekeepers "fault"

...
Don't beat yourself - we're in the middle of an unusual 12 months' weather.

Yes, self-flagellation serves no purpose.

Nevertheless, it might be useful to look back and consider what might have been done differently to improve the chances of those colonies surviving.

No question, its an unusually hard winter. But the healthier (in every sense) and the better-provisioned the colony, the better its chances of getting through any winter. To the extent that the colony might fall short, it is up to the beek to try to ensure that it isn't a fatal shortfall.

Right now, I'm so struck by how much of an easier time the polyhive has had, that I'm seriously wondering about changing over completely.

 

[richardbees]

No question, its an unusually hard winter.

itma, I deliberately said a bad last 12 months because imo it's not just this cold winter but also that last Summer/Autumn was crappy which prevented good colony build-up and the quality of Q mating.
rich

 

[mbc]

No question, its an unusually hard winter.

itma, I deliberately said a bad last 12 months because imo it's not just this cold winter but also that last Summer/Autumn was crappy which prevented good colony build-up and the quality of Q mating.
rich

v. true

 

[ultreen1]

When is small cluster to small? As a very new Beek i have no idea what a decent size cluster would be now?
I would think after reading lots on here a brood box full of bees going into winter is the best way, but how many seams now?
I'm still lucky enough not to have suffered the fate of colony loss yet, I just hope it's not a matter of time.
I do feel for everyone who has lost a colony as it's something I wouldn't like to happen.
So when is small to small?

 

[Dishmop]

So when is small to small?

How long is a piece of string?


The amount of bees in my indoor obs hive wouldnt half fill a nuc box.....


but they dont have to work very hard to keep as warm as is needed to stay alive, so perhaps a lot of the losses that have occured when if seems that the hive had stores, is down to the cold.

 

[Finman]

if seems that the hive had stores, is down to the cold.

it is. If a cluster is too small, heat escapes easily from it.
In normal cluster the core has temperature about 33C and in out mantle about 16C.
In small cluster system does not work any more and bees must work hard when producing heat.

.

 

[Finman]

When is small cluster to small? As a very new ....


So when is small to small?

minimum size of wintering bee cluster is 5 frames. Even if I can keep 2 frame colony alive over winter, it is not capable to make brood any more in spring.

 

[suetheramble]

Thanks for your comments- nothings black and white with bees it seems

 

[Chris Luck]

No question, its an unusually hard winter.

itma, I deliberately said a bad last 12 months because imo it's not just this cold winter but also that last Summer/Autumn was crappy which prevented good colony build-up and the quality of Q mating.
rich

Quite so Richard, most of my losses this winter so far are from Queen failure even with last years Queens.

Chris

 

[Teemore]

Small clusters are being reported over here too - North and South. I have had two Nucs die out since the end of January and on inspection, the clusters were negligible in size. On a few mild days in January I watched the activity outside my beehives and both the Nucs in question were active and seemed to have a good number of bees. My suspicion is that they began to brood too early and the worker bees died off having been worn out trying to maintain viable temperatures in the brood nest. Things probably just escalated from there.... I'm glad i overwintered extra stocks of bees.
A long time ago, one of the wise men on this forum commented that he overwinters an extra 10% of colonies. I consider that to be a very good idea and one that I have adopted.

 

[itma]

No question, its an unusually hard winter.

itma, I deliberately said a bad last 12 months because imo it's not just this cold winter but also that last Summer/Autumn was crappy which prevented good colony build-up and the quality of Q mating.
rich

I'm not disagreeing.
If Queenie runs out of steam during the winter, there's nothing the beek could have done to prevent it.
But by September, if the beek isn't happy with the way things are going ahead of Winter, there are actions that the beek could take to improve their chances of getting through. Probably all of us have lessons to learn - certainly I don't like the amount of fondant I've used and will be raising the bar for autumn feeding in future. And I may have stopped buying wooden boxes.

At a recent talk, Bob Smith was saying that preparations for winter should start at the end of winter - which has an echo in your blaming last summer.

 

[Polyanwood]

Last Spring and Summer we had FERA warnings about colonies being at risk of starving and many of us had to feed bees when normally the supers would have been being filled.

We fed syrup or fondant, but did not feed pollen. In my view my colonies suffered through lack of pollen. They the queens did not lay as well as usual and they built up very slowly. I think that for my bees it was shortage of pollen and not poor mating that most adversely affected queen performance. anyone else notice anything similar?