Leaving fondant on?

[Sir Quej]

As a newbie, I was just wondering, can you leave a block of fondant on the hive over winter? does anyone do this? Should it be done? Will it cause any issues?

Cheers

 

[Pete D]

For those hives that need it then really no problem. A bit of cling film to keep it fresher on the sides not exposed to the bees and just have a very quick peek now and then to check its not all gone.

I fed all mine last year with syrup but still added fondant just in case as I was a newbee and was still getting the hang of hefting. 8 out of 12 hives took all the fondant (2.5kg) and had a bit more which most didnt clear. The other 4 hives hardly touched it and I disolved it into a thin syrup as spring boost em up feed.

This year I imagine will be similar, depends on the weather of course and how much they are using. Heft, heft heft
Pete D

 

[Sir Quej]

Thanks Pete, appreciate the advice.

 

[Sadders]

I tend to leave it on just in case.

Last year it was untouched when I opened up to use oxalic in jan. had all gone in march.

 

[Outlander]

I have a hive that was robbed out, they refused the 2:1 after this so will have to try and get them through on fondant. I did take two frames back from the robbing colony that was wall to wall capped stores. Also frame and a bit from a cut out but this was not that great. Oh well fingers crossed.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As a newbie, I was just wondering, can you leave a block of fondant on the hive over winter? does anyone do this? Should it be done? Will it cause any issues?

Cheers

Yes,Yes,it can be,not really (nothing serious anyway)

 

[Heather]

As all my hives felt light and it was getting too late for more syrup ( had about 10 pints each) so a week ago I put a slab of fondant on each hive.
Some have taken about 1/3 and some untouched so far ( so they must feel ok).. but when I mentioned same to another bee keeper- she freaked out saying 'Far too soon-Fondant is a Jan Feb job- bees must not have yet....Compromising their health! I felt light hives also compromising... What have you all done??--- am I wrong to feed fondant yet??.

 

[oliver90owner]

You feed it if they need it. Beekeeeper's experience required here.

No point in feeding if they don't/won't need it - and it will affect spring build-up unless the beek knows what he/she is doing. If they need it, that is clearly better than a dead-out.

Simple really.

If they are light now, there may be other things that need addressing if the weather allows. An empty (of stores) hive is not the best way of over-wintering colonies.

 

[enrico]

A couple of points. Some put a whole block on all winter and no other food. This is good in as much as the bees tend to leave it unless they need it, they will use their own stores in preference. The other thing is not to use cling film, use a plastic bag. Cling film allows air through, this could allow moisture in which may let it drip through the hive causing moisture problems or it could allow moisture out making the outside of the fondant go rock hard and not easy for the bees to feed on. Which way it goes seems to depend on the weather.
Leaving fondant on all winter may be frowned on but horses for courses I say!
E

 

[Sir Quej]

As I said on another thread. This was advice given me by another very experienced beek and while I didnt want to question his knowledge, I had also heard (as someone said earlier) that fondant was really only for Jan/Feb boost, so just thought I would get a few more opinions.

Cheers

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Leaving fondant on all winter may be frowned on but horses for courses I say!
E

We never fed our horses with fondant - boiled barley and linseed was the usual winter feed

As I said on another thread. This was advice given me by another very experienced beek and while I didnt want to question his knowledge, I had also heard (as someone said earlier) that fondant was really only for Jan/Feb boost, so just thought I would get a few more opinions.
Cheers

The established teaching is to feed bees 2:1 syrup in the autumn (20 kilos is usually the quantity bandied around) this should last them until Christmas, then after opening to treat with OA - fondant is put on to last until spring.
That doesn't mean you cannot put fondant on now if you think they haven't enough stores. In fact, quite a few beekeepers in my area put fondant on at this time - I have on some of my colonies as I know they have't taken enough stores down to last long.

 

[Hivemaker.]

(20 kilos is usually the quantity bandied around) this should last them until Christmas, then after opening to treat with OA - fondant is put on to last until spring.

They should really be fed or left enough stores in autumn to last them until spring, if they need feeding by xmas because they are that low on stores, then it is really a form of emergency feeding.

 

[itma]

...
The established teaching is to feed bees 2:1 syrup in the autumn (20 kilos is usually the quantity bandied around) this should last them until Christmas, then after opening to treat with OA - fondant is put on to last until spring.
...

As written, I don't think that's quite right.

20kg of stores - a real net 20kg - should see them right through the winter, with some margin of safety.

The problem is that (with a single-brood national) it can be hard to get 20kg into the thing.
And that shortfall leads to the need for a later top-up with fondant.
Fondant should not be needed if you do have 20kg stored!


Since SirQuej has 14x12, not single-brood National, he therefore has more than enough space for 20kg.
If he actually has enough stores in there, like 20kg stored, there should be no need for fondant - either now or at Christmas.
If it is a very mild winter, they might possibly use up the safety margin before there's enough Spring forage around. According to Seeley, they use more fuel at +12 than at -5C. So heft, and if it goes light, add fondant when its needed.

He said "I had also heard (as someone said earlier) that fondant was really only for Jan/Feb boost".
Fondant is not about a boost.
It is about avoiding starvation - a risk most frequently encountered in late winter.
Feeding thin syrup (and maybe a pollen supplement) at the very start of Spring - now that *is* about trying to boost the colony, by getting brooding to kick off strongly and slightly earlier.

 

[Sir Quej]

Yeah sorry. Boost was probably the wrong choice of word. I was meaning a "top up" to their food stores as such. Re the pollen substitute, when would you put this on?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Itma/HM I stand chastised if not corrected!
Of course 20 kg is the recommended amount of stores to last until spring - written without thinking through (It's been a long and tiring day) The point I was trying to make (not too well obviously) was not the mechanics of feeding/quantities but rather that there is no 'rule' about not feeding fondant at this time of year just not the usual practice. some I know don't plan to put any on this winter some will probably early on in the new year as they haven't been able to get enough stores on the hives (I think this will be more prevalent in future as a lot of us around here hang on for the HB harvest) I know mine haven't got enough to scrape by until Christmas, and some put on fondant straight off in the autumn rather than faff around with syrup.

 

[itma]

... Re the pollen substitute, when would you put this on?

Substitute/supplement.
Not before Feb down here.
Up there in Leeds? June?

 

[itma]

...
Of course 20 kg is the recommended amount of stores to last until spring - written without thinking through (It's been a long and tiring day) ...

I was pretty damn sure you knew that, my concern was only that the post, as written, said something different.

Beeks being beeks, there may well be an infinite number of ways of making up for a shortfall from the 20kg.

I'm concerned at the number of people that seem to think they need to add fondant - regardless of their hives' stores.
Overfeeding, so coming out of winter with lots of stores in the brood box, is just creating a problem for the spring - swarming.

 

[Suzi Q]

Quick query...what will the bees consume if they have a choice, honey stores or fondant? If the bees have plenty of their own stores and they are given fondant will they eat the fondant rather than uncap their honey?

 

[Heather]

I have bees that have made headway into the fondant, and some not touched, even though hive light..

I was concerned as usually I can barely lift a hive that is ready for winter- this year they are well below what I am happy with- but too late now for syrup as they wont have time to store and reduce.
AND looking at the weather in New York- we often get 2 weeks later and they are in doo doo with snow .

It is there if they want it. I would rather cope with swarm control in the Spring with a colony that came through the winter

 

[MJBee]

A very experienced member of the Forum feeds fondant only, no syrup at all

Yer pays yer money and takes yer chance