Laying Worker or Drone Laying Queen? Advice welcome

[BernardBlack]

First spring inspection today. Overcast, but calm.

- A few frames of honey, some pollen.

- I found what looked like sealed drone brood on a couple of frames - irregular pattern, not a cluster of brood together, dome-shaped. A few unsealed brood too, which looked healthy enough.

- Didn't find Queen (she was mated last summer). Quite a few more bees flying around my veil than usual. Usually they're quite docile, never had as many do that before.

Been monitoring outside the hive regularly over the past few weeks, all seemed normal, and even managed to stand next to it no trouble.

So... Drone Laying Queen or a Laying worker? Or Other?

 

[drex]

Think you have given your own answer. DLQ The pattern is regular and even. Laying ŵorkers - there will not be just one - scattered irregular drone brood. Any sealed worker brood?

 

[BernardBlack]

Think you have given your own answer. DLQ The pattern is regular and even. Laying ŵorkers - there will not be just one - scattered irregular drone brood. Any sealed worker brood?

No, all looked to be drone brood.

Is there any hope?

 

[Erichalfbee]

No, all looked to be drone brood.

Is there any hope?

No hope unless you have another hive.
There is only one in your profile alas

 

[BernardBlack]

No hope unless you have another hive.
There is only one in your profile alas

Flip that anyway!

So do you think the Queen died off during the winter? Was there anything I could have done differently, to save the colony?

 

[Eyeman]

Are there any eggs?
If so multiple eggs in cells and or attached to sides of cells.
I've never seen laying workers in a hive at the first inspection in spring- not saying it doesn't occur.
When I've seen drone cells at that first spring inspection it's always been a DLQ.

 

[BernardBlack]

Are there any eggs?
If so multiple eggs in cells and or attached to sides of cells.
I've never seen laying workers in a hive at the first inspection in spring- not saying it doesn't occur.
When I've seen drone cells at that first spring inspection it's always been a DLQ.

I seen a small number of larvae but no eggs.

 

[Briarfield]

I've never seen laying workers in a hive at the first inspection in spring- not saying it doesn't occur.

When I've seen drone cells at that first spring inspection it's always been a DLQ.

Just had laying workers on first Inspection.

Irregular pattern and multiple eggs on the side of cells.

 

[Millet]

It might be my eyes but can i see the odd worker capped cell in that picture. ?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Flip that anyway!

So do you think the Queen died off during the winter? Was there anything I could have done differently, to save the colony?

Just bad luck. I really feel for you.
You need two nucs now and move on.

 

[BernardBlack]

Just had laying workers on first Inspection.

Irregular pattern and multiple eggs on the side of cells.

That laying pattern was very similar to mine.

Didn't have my phone with me to photograph it as it was too awkward with gloves on.

 

[Eyeman]

It might be my eyes but can i see the odd worker capped cell in that picture. ?

Sure does look like worker cells scattered amongst the domed drones. That would be a DLQ then.

 

[Briarfield]

It might be my eyes but can i see the odd worker capped cell in that picture. ?

That was my first thought so I closed up and looked again. The multiple eggs on the side were definite 10 days later when I had a quick look but didn't have time to shake it out.

The third visit was again irregular drone with multiple eggs and I shook them out.

 

[Plenty of honey]

What you have to do is be absolutely sure there is no queen present, if there is, its likely she's laying drone, then you have chance of giving this colony a new queen after you have killed the old one. Its likely she will be accepted just fine because the colony had a laying queen that you changed, The bees still think they have a laying queen at the point of change of queen.(even if she a drone layer) I found a drone layer in late feb, harvested and overwintering queen, now the colony is booming.
The difference is huge if you instead, have laying workers. These will never accept a new queen and and very likely to slaughter a mated queen. You need to Add brood.

Hivemaker gave me this excellent link, and its the right thing to do. It reverses the absence of brood and helps turn off laying worker workers that are always present in a colony.
have a read of this link, its really explanatory.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm

Ive corrected many colonies this way, there is other ways but they can become very involved, this is a pretty simple.
Correct assessment of the colony is so important.
How many times have you heard the phrase, "i bought a queen in a mailing cage and she was slaughtered by the bees" This is very often the reason why they didnt ***** the colony properly!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Flip that anyway!

So do you think the Queen died off during the winter? Was there anything I could have done differently, to save the colony?

If she's turned drone layer and still laying then she's still around.
There's also a possibility that there was a late supercedure that failed to get mated.
Either way it's nature being uncooperative and your colony will soon run out of worker bees.
Time to source a new colony I think. From a breeder/dealer/vendor in here or the bee auctions are running about now.

 

[BernardBlack]

Ok, so I checked hive again. Haphazard brood pattern, eggs on side of cell, and just to be sure I did the open book method of looking for Queen (didn't find her).

I don't have another hive to combine with so hive will be lost.

Any advice on how to go about getting rid of the bees in the hive? And on cleaning the hive parts and frames to get ready for the next lot? Or is it even worth using frames again?