Thanks for that Phil The chamber ahe came in is different. It has candy in the end of a tube connected to the cage for them to eat in or out!! I have put her in as I did what you said and they seemed to be ok with her. Time will tell. I will check in a few days and report back. I had a really good look before she went in and could not find a queen as could not the previous owner. Fingers crossed.
late swarm
- Thread starter Angiey
- Start date
Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:
Nightynight
New Bee
Hi,
On a side note. Apart from needing to start autum feeding very shortly anyway, but given the circumstances I would ensure this particular colony has a plentiful supply of syrup, sort of standard, take 2 and see me in the morning remedy
. A well feed bee is a happy beeupdate
Hi Back again for an update on late swarm post. As far as my unexperienced eye can make out I have a laying queen. I have seen capped brood and the queen was put in there 9 days ago so does that mean there was a queen already in and the new one I put in would have been surplus. I have a few photos and would like your opinions on them as to how you see the frames are progressing.
I assume the third one down these are drone cells?
Fourth one down is a frame near the edge of the Brood Box with the one on the outside of it has nothing on it so basically this is the last one they are working on before they move on to the last on. I am feeding and they have taken down about 7 kg of api-suc bee syrup in about 10 days,
Do I keep feeding as they are still foraging and coming back laden with pollen.
Thanks.
Hi Back again for an update on late swarm post. As far as my unexperienced eye can make out I have a laying queen. I have seen capped brood and the queen was put in there 9 days ago so does that mean there was a queen already in and the new one I put in would have been surplus. I have a few photos and would like your opinions on them as to how you see the frames are progressing.
I assume the third one down these are drone cells?
Fourth one down is a frame near the edge of the Brood Box with the one on the outside of it has nothing on it so basically this is the last one they are working on before they move on to the last on. I am feeding and they have taken down about 7 kg of api-suc bee syrup in about 10 days,
Do I keep feeding as they are still foraging and coming back laden with pollen.
Thanks.
Phil280
New Bee
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2011
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 0
- Location
- Vienna/Austria
- Hive Type
- Other
- Number of Hives
- 15
Hi Angiey.
Thanks for the nice pictures.
Well the first shows queen in centre - so that's good.
The second picture shows capped honey stores and some pollen close to the uncapped area. Difficult to see if there are eggs in the centre there - but would be possible.
The third picture has - as you say some capped drone cells (front left) and some capped worker cells (back right). The rest is capped and uncapped honey.
They seem to be filling the cells between the capped brood with stores.
The last two pictures are capped and uncapped honey.
It depends on when the queen was taken out of the swarm be4 you got it. Can't remember and dashing off to work in a mo so can't read through the thread again now.
Drone cells are capped on the 10th day, workers cells on the 9th day.
That would mean that there was a one day old egg on that frame with the drone cells.
With the others it could work out but the shape of the area with the capped cells suggests that they are older IMHO. The queen - providing she has laying space - should lay eggs in a compact area, nice and more or less round.
Does the queen have space to lay or are all the combs filled with food?
Greets
Phil
Thanks for the nice pictures.
Well the first shows queen in centre - so that's good.
The second picture shows capped honey stores and some pollen close to the uncapped area. Difficult to see if there are eggs in the centre there - but would be possible.
The third picture has - as you say some capped drone cells (front left) and some capped worker cells (back right). The rest is capped and uncapped honey.
They seem to be filling the cells between the capped brood with stores.
The last two pictures are capped and uncapped honey.
It depends on when the queen was taken out of the swarm be4 you got it. Can't remember and dashing off to work in a mo so can't read through the thread again now.
Drone cells are capped on the 10th day, workers cells on the 9th day.
That would mean that there was a one day old egg on that frame with the drone cells.
With the others it could work out but the shape of the area with the capped cells suggests that they are older IMHO. The queen - providing she has laying space - should lay eggs in a compact area, nice and more or less round.
Does the queen have space to lay or are all the combs filled with food?
Greets
Phil
T
Tom Bick
Guest
the queen was put in there 9 days ago so does that mean there was a queen already in and the new one I put in would have been surplus
Just a simple question was the queen you put in hive marked when you introduced her as the one in the photo appears not to be.
Just a simple question was the queen you put in hive marked when you introduced her as the one in the photo appears not to be.
Thanks for replies guys. I was too wrapped up in figuring out time cycles to remember that queen that was put in had a small white mark on her but was not too visible. Whether it has rubbed off or not is anyones guess. I suspect this queen was always there and extra queen was surplus to bees requirements.
drstitson
Queen Bee
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2010
- Messages
- 7,656
- Reaction score
- 3
- Location
- surrey, lincolnshire etc.
- Hive Type
- Dadant
- Number of Hives
- 14
whether or not it is the introduced queen you've seen or a "native" it seems to me the problem you have is that in the meantime your bees have filled ALL the available space with honey (and some pollen).
HM has nowhere to lay.
you've over-fed.
the end frame won't get drawn and used as it is "outside" working area.
stop feeding for now (a brood frame holds about 2kg - you've given enough to fill 3+ - you originally said the nuc had lots of stores so even allowing for poor weather/forage a small stalled colony like this will have become honey-bound).
do you have any empty frames of drawn combs?
if not i'd move undrawn frame in next to the pollen and bruise surrounding stores.
if you have another available i'd swap out the best capped frames of stores for the moment - giving two frames to work on.
HM has nowhere to lay.
you've over-fed.
the end frame won't get drawn and used as it is "outside" working area.
stop feeding for now (a brood frame holds about 2kg - you've given enough to fill 3+ - you originally said the nuc had lots of stores so even allowing for poor weather/forage a small stalled colony like this will have become honey-bound).
do you have any empty frames of drawn combs?
if not i'd move undrawn frame in next to the pollen and bruise surrounding stores.
if you have another available i'd swap out the best capped frames of stores for the moment - giving two frames to work on.
Last edited:
I was going to go in and have a look tomorrow re drawn comb. Last time I was in they were drawing a frame but I have not fed for about 5 days as they are still bringing in loads of pollen Do I stop feeding for a while and place a drawn frame comb in centre? Also, sorry for my ignorance but what do you mean by bruise stores? Thanks
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2011
- Messages
- 37,577
- Reaction score
- 18,069
- Location
- Glanaman,Carmarthenshire,Wales
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- Too many - but not nearly enough
It looks like you had a queen in there all along and the bees have got rid of your new one, I'd definitely stop feeding for a while as they have loads of stores and need now to make space for the queen to lay. To bruise stores just lightly scrape accross the cappings with the flat of your hive tool to expose the honey and encourage the bees to move it.If you can acquire a frame of drawn (but empty) comb put that in the middle of the other frames taking out one of the other frames to make room. Otherwise put the undrawn frame you have in the middle next to the pollen stores.
Went in today and they have been busy. I now have 2 full frames of capped brood and a frame of egg/pupa/larve. The bees had started to build a frame of comb which I have inserted into the middle of Brood Box so I will see how it goes.
Ratio now is approx 2 frames capped brood,1 frame pupae/larvve 6 frames stores/pollen and three empty frrames including the one I put in working area. Is this a good ratio all things considered re late swarm and earlier posts etc?
Photo of larvae etc
Ratio now is approx 2 frames capped brood,1 frame pupae/larvve 6 frames stores/pollen and three empty frrames including the one I put in working area. Is this a good ratio all things considered re late swarm and earlier posts etc?
Photo of larvae etc
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2008
- Messages
- 2,221
- Reaction score
- 223
- Location
- S.E. Norfolk
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- 12 on a good day, often more..
If the queen came marked, its unlikely that the markings would come off in just a few days. Also it is unusual that you see drone brood just a few days after a queen has been introduced to a colony that's been queenless for a while - even more so at this time of year.
In my view you don't need to bruise the cappings - the bees have space so they will move stores around as they need. As there are plenty of stores and a laying queen - doing nicely, then there is no need to mess with them - they should be left alone for 7 - 10 days to allow themselves to organise the brood nest as they want.
Bees have been keeping bees for a lot longer than we have.
Test Frame: A frame of brood with eggs and small larvae is placed in the hive. If there is no queen the bees will try to raise one so you'll see queencells after a few days. If there is a queen, then no queencells will be produced.
In my view you don't need to bruise the cappings - the bees have space so they will move stores around as they need. As there are plenty of stores and a laying queen - doing nicely, then there is no need to mess with them - they should be left alone for 7 - 10 days to allow themselves to organise the brood nest as they want.
Bees have been keeping bees for a lot longer than we have.
Test Frame: A frame of brood with eggs and small larvae is placed in the hive. If there is no queen the bees will try to raise one so you'll see queencells after a few days. If there is a queen, then no queencells will be produced.
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2010
- Messages
- 2,984
- Reaction score
- 7
- Location
- Exmoor
- Hive Type
- None
- Number of Hives
- None of my own
Nice easy to remember ratio is 4:2:1 - 4 capped, 2 uncapped, 1 eggs - not exact but exact enough.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2011
- Messages
- 37,577
- Reaction score
- 18,069
- Location
- Glanaman,Carmarthenshire,Wales
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- Too many - but not nearly enough
She'll reuse probably, unless she's slowing down her laying for winter then the extremities of the brood will get filled with stores
drstitson
Queen Bee
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2010
- Messages
- 7,656
- Reaction score
- 3
- Location
- surrey, lincolnshire etc.
- Hive Type
- Dadant
- Number of Hives
- 14
"not exact but exact enough"
how not exact enough?
3 days eggs (1)
6 days larvae (2)
12 days capped (4)
=21 days
or are you referring to the fact that life cycle is all based on averages.
how not exact enough?
3 days eggs (1)
6 days larvae (2)
12 days capped (4)
=21 days
or are you referring to the fact that life cycle is all based on averages.
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2010
- Messages
- 2,984
- Reaction score
- 7
- Location
- Exmoor
- Hive Type
- None
- Number of Hives
- None of my own
