LASI Blog - high acceptance in the direct introduction of queens with smoke but without cages

[tonel]

Wondering about the emergency queen cells that will be produced in the queenless period - would they need to be removed before introducing the queen with smoke? Didn't see any mention of it anywhere..

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes

 

[Finman]

Here is a link to the paper in 2008, which I think tehy are quoting

https://www.sussex.ac.uk/webteam/ga...8-hbee-direct-queen-introduction.pdf&site=398

45 years ago there was a research too, how succesful is smoke in Queen introducing. My mentor read it to me from American Journal.

But be carefull. The Key of succes is the long queenles time, not that smoke

 

[Plenty of honey]

I don't like the phrase 'high acceptance' how high is high? using a cage I'd expect more or less 100%

Couldn't agree more, why go for near 100% acceptance, when you can have
100 % acceptance!
First thing i thought when i saw this yesterday. This blog has been posted on many other beekeeping forums. To me the method is still risky. Why not just stick her under a push in cage and be done with it.!!!
Perhaps they have forgotten how good the method is!!?? https://youtu.be/aGbjfYV8v38

 

[BeeJayBee]

They do give some figures depending on how long the hive has been queenless.

high acceptance in the direct introduction of queens with smoke but without cages
One day after introduction the hive was inspected to determine if the queen was present (accepted). Acceptance was: 6 days queenlessness (100%), 5 days (100%), 4 days (92%), 3 days (92%), 2 days (85%), 1 day (31%).​

It would be interesting to know how this compares with other methods used to introduce queens and if it matches the advice LASI gives with the queens they're selling.

 

[Finman]

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I do not count on smoke anything. But wait that emergency cells are capped, that I use during difficult periods.

I have time to put the Queen under push cage.

And difficult to believe, that when a beekeeper has made a huge work and then got a laying Queen ready, he must put it into the hive in 2 seconds.

If somebody is so efficient, that he rear the Queen 3 weeks, and then put it into the hive to minimize his work, he should change his medication.

And I wonder where the 2 hive owner has such a hurry.


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[Finman]

It would be interesting to know how this compares with other methods used to introduce queens and if it matches the advice LASI gives with the queens they're selling.

If you get that answer, you cannot use it. The methid can give to you 90% acceptance in July, but in August it gives 90% dead.

The introducing of queen is so well known, that no reasearcher start to waste time with that issue. He does not get merit from it..
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[jenkinsbrynmair]

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I do not count on smoke nothing.

I have time to put the Queen under push cage.

And difficult to believe, that when a beekeeper has made a huge work and then got a laying Queen ready, he must put it into the hive in 2 seconds.

If somebody is so efficient, that he rear the Queen 3 weeks, and then put it into the hive to minimize his work, he should change his medication.

.

(I can't believe I said that!! )

 

[Finman]

(I can't believe I said that!! )

Do not take it personally.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's OK - I took myself into the office and gave myself a serious talking to.

 

[Obee1]

The last similar one I did I took out 3 supersedure cells and the queen, left them for half an hour then put the new queen in.....but I did have her in a cage
All is well now

Thanks erica. I have a hive with 6 eQC and I want to intoduce a bought in queen - after counting her legs of course! If she was a freebie queen I would have a go at the puffing loads of smoke method..... Maybe later this year when the breeder queen produces the bucket load of queens anticipated

 

[tonel]

Just out of curiosity - has anyone tried direct introduction using smoke in the past, and if so how successful was it? It's not a method I've seen in any books, although I have read the paper before. Have tried introducing queens a few times, with mixed results (butler cage to nuc, nuc to hive; plastic queen cage into queenless hive, release after a few days etc). Am always looking for ways to keep things simple in beekeeping, especially if they actually work

 

[madasafish]

AirWick air freshener is better than smoke.

 

[Finman]

Just out of curiosity - has anyone tried direct introduction using smoke in the past, and if so how successful was it? It's not a method I've seen in any books, although I have read the paper before. Have tried introducing queens a few times, with mixed results (butler cage to nuc, nuc to hive; plastic queen cage into queenless hive, release after a few days etc). Am always looking for ways to keep things simple in beekeeping, especially if they actually work

You may keep simple, but now it is question, what bees do. They do not mind about your ideas.

You must know, do they kill the Queen or not. Perhaps they cut only antenna, or poison the front leg rigid. Perhaps they bite away claws from hind leg.

With simple tricks you loose 50% of queens.


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[Hivemaker.]

Just out of curiosity - has anyone tried direct introduction using smoke in the past,

Not using smoke, but plenty of times without it (if that counts) five times last week in fact, and twice earlier this week.

 

[Finman]

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I use 10 different ways, depending on time of summer and situation of the hive.

For excample changing the queen of the swarm makes mostly unwanted surprises.

 

[Finman]

When introducing the queen with smoke is at least 45 years old, why no one use it so, that smoke and queen into entrance. I have used it but it is a stupid habit.

 

[maddydog]

(I can't believe I said that!! )

Sticky? ;-) Never thought I'd see the day, must be all this EU stuff!

In my experience the period of queenlessness is way more critical than smoke etc. Leaving the q in a travel cage and assessing the reaction of the bees (Michael palmer) is as good as anything. I've also used something smelly to mask scents. Push in cages over emerging brood have been very effective, within hours of making colonies queenless never mind days.
I think the blog should be clearer as to what is important and achievable before some beeks lose 40 quid queens coz introducing them via the entrance and a puff of smoke didn't work