Langstroth Dimensions

[rdixon520]

I have heard people mention that not all countries langstroth beehives are of the same dimensions. Is this the case? Anyone any further information on how much they vary from each other? Cheers

 

[Midland Beek]

Langstroth is Langstroth, but frames come in three depths. In the UK we call these three: shallow/super, deep/brood and Jumbo brood. In consequence, you get boxes of three depths. Note that Langstroth Jumbo frames are the same size as our Modified Dadant deep, but are spaced differently.

Around the world you might get Langstroth hives which hold different numbers of frames, but in the UK Langstroth boxes typically hold the same number of frames from one hive to another.

Lang and MD hives are top bee space, unlike your National/Commercial/WBC hives which are bottom bee space.

 

[rolande]

Langstroth is Langstroth, but frames come in three depths.

Taken from here:

Name(s) Depth Weight full of honey Uses
• Jumbo, Dadant Deep 11 5/8" 100 - 110 pounds Brood
• Deep, Langstroth Deep 9 5/8" 80 - 90 pounds Brood & Ext
• Western Bee Supply 7 5/8" 70 - 80 pounds Brood & Ext
• Medium, Illinois, 3/4 6 5/8" 60 - 70 pounds Brood & Ext & Cmb
• Shallow 5 ¾" or 5 11/16" 50 - 60 pounds Cmb
• Extra Shallow, ½ 4 ¾" or 4 11/16" 40 - 50 pounds Cmb

 

[Hivemaker.]

...http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=856

 

[alanf]

Anyone any further information on how much they vary from each other?

The late Dave Cushman recorded some variations: http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/lang.html

 

[itma]

Langstroth is Langstroth, but frames come in three depths. ...

Three?

Notionally, there are indeed three types of box in the UK ... but as Dave Cushman noted there is considerable international variation in the details (and names) of the sizes ... even though he didn't list all the liberties that have been taken.
And people do import and sell in the UK boxes from abroad ...
I recall ITLD recounting the story of how someone had ordered a large number of poly Langs from abroad to discover that they had been created with beespace split 50:50 between top and bottom on each and every box!

The idea that "Langstroth" is a unified and defined standard, followed worldwide, is simply naive.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I recall ITLD recounting the story of how someone had ordered a large number of poly Langs from abroad to discover that they had been created with beespace split 50:50 between top and bottom on each and every box!

Paradise honey Langstroths as sold by Modern Beekeeping fit that bill.

 

[johnandyrob]

Paradise honey Langstroths as sold by Modern Beekeeping fit that bill.

or dont fit as the case may bee

 

[drstitson]

"Paradise honey Langstroths as sold by Modern Beekeeping fit that bill.
or dont fit as the case may bee"

but since they aren't interchangeable with other kit due to the lip there isn't a problem between boxes.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I have heard people mention that not all countries langstroth beehives are of the same dimensions. Is this the case?

The idea that "Langstroth" is a unified and defined standard, followed worldwide, is simply naive.

but since they aren't interchangeable with other kit due to the lip there isn't a problem between boxes.

Precisely, and that is the whole point, incompatibility.

Langstroth equipment accounts for about 75% of worldwide beekeeping kit, however within that term 'Langstroth standard' there are about ninety sub species, some of which are totally incompatible with each other.

 

[BeeJayBee]

If you buy poly Langstroth supers, from either Paynes or MB, you need to use MD super frames because the 'ordinary' langstroth super frames sold by most UK suppliers are too shallow, and only fit the shallower wooden Lang supers.

 

[rolande]

If you buy poly Langstroth supers, from either Paynes or MB, you need to use MD super frames because the 'ordinary' langstroth super frames sold by most UK suppliers are too shallow, and only fit the shallower wooden Lang supers.

Not anymore, with Mann L's new depot it's easy to purchase langstroth medium frames.

 

[johnandyrob]

Not anymore, with Mann L's new depot it's easy to purchase langstroth medium frames.

Iv never had a problem getting frames for my langstroth mediums/3/4 poly boxes. I usualy wait till there in the sales at a couple of the big English supliers.

 

[rolande]

Iv never had a problem getting frames for my langstroth mediums/3/4 poly boxes. I usualy wait till there in the sales at a couple of the big English supliers.

Beejoyful appeared to be saying that it's necessary to buy dadant shallows in this country, hence my reply.

 

[johnandyrob]

Thats because the box we call a langstroth super is not normaly used for a super in other countries but for cut comb. The langstroth that other countries would call a super didnt realy exsist in this country till the introduction of poly langs. Im sure some on like itld will be allong soon to clarify that if im wrong.

 

[BeeJayBee]

If you buy poly Langstroth supers, from either Paynes or MB, you need to use MD super frames because the 'ordinary' langstroth super frames sold by most UK suppliers are too shallow, and only fit the shallower wooden Lang supers.

Not anymore, with Mann L's new depot it's easy to purchase langstroth medium frames.

Yes, I've looked at that site, prices seem quite competetive.

As far as I can see, they do 4 frame depths, but they don't do the Lang Jumbo frames - which are just a smidgeon (1/8") narrower than Dadant hoffman brood frames.

 

[Midland Beek]

There's not much variation in the Langstroth kit used in the UK.

 

[rolande]

Thats because the box we call a langstroth super is not normaly used for a super in other countries but for cut comb. The langstroth that other countries would call a super didnt realy exsist in this country till the introduction of poly langs. Im sure some on like itld will be allong soon to clarify that if im wrong.

Which is pretty much what BeeJoyful was saying (a friendly warning to the unwary) -in this country previously it was necessary to use md shallows in langstroth medium boxes (unless you bought frames from the continent) because people weren't selling the frames branded as 'langstroth medium'.

As for the medium box, that was a later addition to the langstroth hive -adopted from the md super depth sometime in the first half of the 20th century, it certainly wasn't a part of Langstroth's design, so we're back to the op and his question about differences between the way this hive is built and used in different places. What does actually constitute a 'correct' langstroth hive (something which hivemaker answered quite well earlier). On the other thread which the op started with the same title as this one I posted a link to a Bee Culture article by Jim Thompson looking at the different bee-space tolerances between boxes made by ten US manufacturers which just goes to show that even there nothing is set in stone.

 

[johnandyrob]

So if anything man lake have made it more complicated in this country by introducing a different name for some thing we rightly or wronly all ready have a name for.