Just one capped cell

[Jonnyl]

Earlier this week I inspected a blue queen hive, 2 spring supers this year and performing well. Saw one well developed QC but couldnt see inside. BIAS and eggs ao i took it down, royalty was inside. I went through the hive, no more cells. Returned today and once again another QC this time capped, a few play cups, all empty and eggs seen again but no sighting of the queen however I've only ever seen her twice, very faded blue marking. I feel I should just let them get on with it but I find it strange. They've 3 supers on (just needing capped) and I added another today and replaced a frame of stores with foundation. Thought about pinching the frame and putting it in a nuc? Any explanation or advice would as always be very appreciated. Thank you all.

 

[Anduril]

They are making a supersedure cell.

 

[Levitt53]

Yes sounds like supersedure. Just leave them to it.

 

[Jonnyl]

I was very much hoping that's what others would think. There's plenty space so I'll take your advice and leave them be till it's time to take the honey and treat with apivar. Cheers.

 

[Do224]

They are making a supersedure cell.

How can you tell it’s supercedure and not swarm preps? (I’m not suggesting you’re wrong, just wanting to understand your reasoning)

 

[Erichalfbee]

How can you tell it’s supercedure and not swarm preps? (I’m not suggesting you’re wrong, just wanting to understand your reasoning)

I queen cell. Old queen still at home. Classic
The fact that a previous removed cell was replaced is a clue too

 

[madasafish]

How can you tell it’s supercedure and not swarm preps? (I’m not suggesting you’re wrong, just wanting to understand your reasoning)

Normally a hive swarms when a QC is capped. The old queen was still there with a capped cell so not swarm.
Normally swarm cells = many. Supercedure cells =1to 3 ish

So the evidence is : supercedure, not swarm.

Boolean logic.

(Much easier to understand if you condense everything to basics, that's what I endeavour to do)

 

[Do224]

Normally a hive swarms when a QC is capped. The old queen was still there with a capped cell so not swarm.
Normally swarm cells = many. Supercedure cells =1to 3 ish

So the evidence is : supercedure, not swarm.

Boolean logic.

(Much easier to understand if you condense everything to basics, that's what I endeavour to do)

Thanks, that makes sense. I guess that means you’d have to take a chance initially by letting them cap the cell before finding out for sure it’s supercedure

 

[Erichalfbee]

Except it’s fairly common to find capped swarm cells and the queen still present.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks, that makes sense. I guess that means you’d have to take a chance initially by letting them cap the cell before finding out for sure it’s supercedure

You can always nuc the queen as insurance

 

[ericbeaumont]

You can always nuc the queen as insurance

Although that would trigger emergency cells.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Although that would trigger emergency cells.

well you leave the 'supersedure' cell with the hive, remove the EQCs as and when and let them raise the new queen they prepared.
If it was supersedure, they will try again in the nuc - that's why I always make up a strong nuc with plenty of emerging brood if I suspect supersedure

 

[StephenT]

Except it’s fairly common to find capped swarm cells and the queen still present.

Yep. One of our hives in April had swarm cells of which a few were capped. Couldn’t find the queen or see eggs and so thought they had swarmed. They did the next day. Differentiating between swarm and supersedure cells has been a dilemma for us this year.

 

[Jonnyl]

Well I left it just over a week and went to discover if the capped cell had emerged. It had. All good as there were eggs and BIAS present too however there was another capped QC which was chewed from the side, disposed of that but then two further capped QC one on each side of the same frame in the middle of the comb. What are they doing? Insurance perhaps? If the VQ is mated will they destroy them or should I do it? Still never saw HRH but I never do see this elusive monarch. Thanks again for the benefit of your experience.

 

[Anduril]

2 options
The old queen could still be in the hive, queens do like walking on the walls of the hive. The virgin queen may or may not be mated or lost, the bees have produced 2 more cells for supersedure. Leave them be and it will get sorted.
Second option, make a nuc with the queen cells and see if they draw more queen cells in the hive.

 

[user 20297]

This thread seems to fit my query. I've just inspected my second biggest hive, with brood and a half (shallow on the top), and one, rapidly filling.shallow honey box.
I was getting concerned because last week I spotted several, dry "play"-cups at the bottom of the top frames. Last week, the colony was quite feisty and my smoker was playing up so I retreated. Whilst the queen lays well, I've never seen her, (including today when I was considering a Demaree). In theory, she may not be the best as she was the last in a line of emergency queens I created last end of May/June.
When I reached the central brood frame I found one queen-cell containing an egg. The cell was exactly half way along the frame and built from the foundation but just below the top-bar. It is straighter and seems longer already than any image I have ever seen of a queen-cell. Effectively, it's in the exact centre of the brood-nest.
I've left it intact and intend to check again in less than a week. I'm hoping I've appraised things correctly, but will welcome peoples' views on this.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Whilst the queen lays well, I've never seen her, (including today when I was considering a Demaree)

What I do in that case is prepare a new box on the bottom with drawn comb in the middle and foundation elsewhere (unless I have enough drawn comb to fill the whole box) then shake all the bees off the brood frames into that box, put a QX over them then build the rest of the hive up as per Demarree.

I found one queen-cell containing an egg. The cell was exactly half way along the frame and built from the foundation but just below the top-bar. It is straighter and seems longer already than any image I have ever seen of a queen-cell. Effectively, it's in the exact centre of the brood-nest.
I've left it intact and intend to check again in less than a week. I'm hoping I've appraised things correctly, but will welcome peoples' views on this.

could be supersedure, although if the cell is longer than usual (with a larva in) it frequently turns out to be a dud.
Most queen cells start deep within the comb so, like an iceberg (not the lettuce type) you only see the tip. Supercedure cells however are sometimes built on the face of the comb so will appear a bit longer.

 

[user 20297]

What I do in that case is prepare a new box on the bottom with drawn comb in the middle and foundation elsewhere (unless I have enough drawn comb to fill the whole box) then shake all the bees off the brood frames into that box, put a QX over them then build the rest of the hive up as per Demarree.

could be supersedure, although if the cell is longer than usual (with a larva in) it frequently turns out to be a dud.
Most queen cells start deep within the comb so, like an iceberg (not the lettuce type) you only see the tip. Supercedure cells however are sometimes built on the face of the comb so will appear a bit longer.

Thank-you for the great advice....that alternative for making sure the queen is in the bottom box for a Demaree will be invaluable; but I'm not looking forward to the madness that will ensue.

 

[user 20297]

What I do in that case is prepare a new box on the bottom with drawn comb in the middle and foundation elsewhere (unless I have enough drawn comb to fill the whole box) then shake all the bees off the brood frames into that box, put a QX over them then build the rest of the hive up as per Demarree.

could be supersedure, although if the cell is longer than usual (with a larva in) it frequently turns out to be a dud.
Most queen cells start deep within the comb so, like an iceberg (not the lettuce type) you only see the tip. Supercedure cells however are sometimes built on the face of the comb so will appear a bit longer.

You were right....it was a dud. The colony is pretty big now and has started playing at cup-building, but all seems well just now.