January 2021

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The days are getting longer, yet the world is dark at 5pm. At least we're on the uphill slope now towards longer days and Spring....although that will be a couple of months away as today I woke to another heavy hoare frost and then sleet when out and about.
Out and about in Tier 3 and Tier 4 that is delivering honey to essential retailers who are anticipating a busy January.
I have been sitting thinking about what the year may have in store. Having suffered two bouts of Covid in the past 12 months I know it's not something to be enjoyed, although the second time wasn't as bad as the first. I do hope that local food outlets will continue to be supported by those able and willing to do so. Certainly it seems there has been a move to localism, and while I tend to supply trade customers I have a returning number of local retail customers too who are now regulars.

To the bees and beekeeping - I am overwintering more nucs than ever before, and have fed more fondant thus far than in previous years. I felt that the bees have been more active this Autumn and early Winter and were burning through their stores. Some that I checked on in late November hadn't even begun to cluster and some were on 9-10 seams of bees too.

The winter is again focused on building kit - frames for nucs (I always run out) rendering old super frames before the wax moth get their little burrowing bodies into them and making something of the wax, and knocking together a large batch of replacement floors and roofs to rotate some that are definitely on their last legs.

Also on the list are another batch of large hive stands. I do find I accumulate the necessary parts to make stands during the year and then 'mislay' them and end up buying another batch of 5" nails or creocote only to 'find' the container of wood preserver or the box of nails while searching for something else....anyone else suffer this ?

In many ways I feel like I'm at a crossroads with the bees. Keep at the numbers I'm at (low hundreds) and manage them accordingly with a full time job as well, decrease numbers and better manage them and further focus on honey production, keep the same numbers, sell more nucs and home raised queens, or expand further...

I've always raised my own queens, but in the past few seasons have further developed this and hope to have a good surplus of queens to sell in 2021. I've been reading the interview with Pete Little in the book of the same name (Interviews with Beekeepers, a great read I hope there will be a Vol.2) and it seems AI has to be the way for me to go forward rather than buying in a top breeder queen (although that is also an option). What's putting me off the former is the kit and training - how to during a lockdown, and the latter - well a beefarmer pal had to chase his order of a top breeder queen from Europe last year having paid a decent amount of money for it....I'll need to follow up on this and find out whether it actually arrived.

Well. Happy reading and happy kit building one and all.

Here's to 2021
 
In many ways I feel like I'm at a crossroads with the bees. Keep at the numbers I'm at (low hundreds) and manage them accordingly with a full time job as well, decrease numbers and better manage them and further focus on honey production, keep the same numbers, sell more nucs and home raised queens, or expand further...
Which gives the most pleasure, bees or the full-time job?
 
I'm impressed at anyone that has a full time job and more than a hundred colonies; I'd struggle with half that.
 
I was wondering as I'm probably some years behind all of you in beekeeping years /experience and colony numbers.. With low hundreds of colonys are you not able to support your self with just being a bf??
Because my thoughts are way going out the window...
Bee /queen rearing, selling nucs has to be more profitable if concentration is more so on purer stock ,( but honey production in the longer term once your very established and have numbers of production colonys plus maybe an organic/pesticide free ticket on your honey, could also be very profitable..
More than enough to support one's self.

Somerford you are a work aholic.. If I was you I would concentrate on your girls, but then my" bee fever "has me completely in love, and I would rather work with them than do anything else.

Happy New year, what ever you decide I always like to read your blogs, and how you are getting on, take care my friend.

Mark.
 
I'm no expert Mark and I'd be interested to hear from others but I was told by an EX bee farmer that he needed 350 hives for every person he employed in his business.
 
I'm no expert Mark and I'd be interested to hear from others but I was told by an EX bee farmer that he needed 350 hives for every person he employed in his business.
Really?? Why?? Don't sound right to me 200 production colonys even if they produced 20lbs of honey each do the maths?? £14,000@ £3.50 a lb.
 
Really?? Why?? Don't sound right to me 200 production colonys even if they produced 20lbs of honey each do the maths?? £14,000@ £3.50 a lb.
As I said Mark, I was told during a bee lecture by a guy who had given up honey and spent his whole time lecturing and running courses. Much easier.
From my experience of running a business with costs, overheads and extra equipment if I employed a new full time guy it would cost me £35k+ but then I was never in beekeeping/agriculture.
 
£50K + if in the Home Counties.... living hand to mouth with a mortgage to pay!... and that was 30 years ago!!!!
 
£50K + if in the Home Counties.... living hand to mouth with a mortgage to pay!... and that was 30 years ago!!!!
1984 ( thank you George Orwell bang on cue) my mortgage interest payments rose to 15 1/4% .
closing of the mining industry was the start of wholesale decimation of British industry !
 
£50K + if in the Home Counties.... living hand to mouth with a mortgage to pay!... and that was 30 years ago!!!!
This was in the Home Counties but was trying to moderate my sums! I think many people are unrealistic when it comes to employing people. There is a vast difference from doing the work yourself and taking the step to employ someone who needs a regular wage to keep a family fed, clothed and sheltered 365 days a year.
 
Really?? Why?? Don't sound right to me 200 production colonys even if they produced 20lbs of honey each do the maths?? £14,000@ £3.50 a lb.

Sales vanity ... profit sanity ...

You need to take account of ALL your costs ... you will rapidly find that your £14,000 reduces with variable costs alone down to two thirds of that ... then you have overheads, capital costs (new equipment, replacement bees, replacement kit, vehicles).

200 colonies ... hard pushed to do that amount of colonies on your own ... so you need additional labour and that's not cheap if you are employing them properly and not relying on slave labour or not taking into account the hours you spend on beekeeping.

You have to allow for good years and bad years ... in a bad year you may be putting more into your colonies than you get out of them so some reserves are necessary.

You can easily see why 350 colonies are necessary to fund additional labour and make some profit out of it.

If you are baseing your future plans on the value of your honey sales then I would suggest you get the assistance of someone who has some accountancy and business knowledge before you commit to anything beyond hobby beekeeping.
 
Really?? Why?? Don't sound right to me 200 production colonys even if they produced 20lbs of honey each do the maths?? £14,000@ £3.50 a lb.
Really?? Why?? Don't sound right to me 200 production colonys even if they produced 20lbs of honey each do the maths?? £14,000@ £3.50 a lb.


Err 200 colonies at 20lbs a colony = 4,000 lbs
At £3.50 /lb £14,000 pa income.

Not much of a living after costs.(unless you declare none and claim benefits.)
 
Really?? Why?? Don't sound right to me 200 production colonys even if they produced 20lbs of honey each do the maths?? £14,000@ £3.50 a lb.
What you haven't even thought to consider is that with income, there is also outcome - with a large outfit there's the need for more space - off season storage, extraction facilities, vehicles, replacement kit, consumables, National Insurance contributions (for you, and as an employer, part of your workforce), a piddling fourteen grand a year is going to take you nowhere
I think many people are unrealistic when it comes to employing people.
or, for that matter, being self employed.
 
I was only going of bulk prices per lb of honey.. I was looking at it selling a bulk load.
If I was selling jars of honey like this season, we made over 5k just from 700 jars and a handful of nucs.. Let alone jars of chunk at £12.50 last season.
Our price will be £7-8 per 340g hex jars this year, And we will have thrice the amount of production colonys.. If we didnt concentrate on stock rearing souly.
2,100 340g jars is £14,200..
200 production colonys producing only 20lbs each would be a very low figure.
If this figure of 20lbs was achieved for 200 colonys and I sold each jar at the price we will get this year that would be £30,000 a marked difference 40lbs per colony £60,000


This season we could of sold thrice the amount of honey @ £6 per 340g hex. The market is there and is only going to grow with proper marketing..

A friend of mine has said though, the more honey you have to sell the less your going to get for it.
My reply was I sort of agree, one isn't going to want to sit on lots and lots of honey.. But this is a big but if you sell to outlets further a field...you could keep your prices higher and still hopefully have the turnover.
I have nucs to sell if I want but we will be keeping them.

I was working out the 14k as a very minimum I though folk would of noticed that?

Our plans are to concentrate mainly on colony numbers queen rearing This next season or two.
The figures show that there is more monetary value in stock and alot less work imo than honey, but you Need to sell both for the profile of your business to prosper.
 
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This was in the Home Counties but was trying to moderate my sums! I think many people are unrealistic when it comes to employing people. There is a vast difference from doing the work yourself and taking the step to employ someone who needs a regular wage to keep a family fed, clothed and sheltered 365 days a year.
Neil I employe 5 people in the landscaping and two on the farm...
No need to moderate.. But sometimes its best to look at the lower figures as a base because in the event of things going wrong or losses or projects going over any profit from previous whatever should balance that out.

Im only going on my experience of farming and landscaping..
 
Sales vanity ... profit sanity ...

You need to take account of ALL your costs ... you will rapidly find that your £14,000 reduces with variable costs alone down to two thirds of that ... then you have overheads, capital costs (new equipment, replacement bees, replacement kit, vehicles).

200 colonies ... hard pushed to do that amount of colonies on your own ... so you need additional labour and that's not cheap if you are employing them properly and not relying on slave labour or not taking into account the hours you spend on beekeeping.

You have to allow for good years and bad years ... in a bad year you may be putting more into your colonies than you get out of them so some reserves are necessary.

You can easily see why 350 colonies are necessary to fund additional labour and make some profit out of it.

If you are baseing your future plans on the value of your honey sales then I would suggest you get the assistance of someone who has some accountancy and business knowledge before you commit to anything beyond hobby beekeeping.
Wise words ! I have a Dvd of how Quince honey started with his demobilisation money from the army !
he acknowledges he started with a romantic view of an ideal life earning a living from beekeeping!
he explained the difficulties both financially and practically!
he was quite open about the opening of an attendant cafe and live bee exhibitions saving the day .Also he suggested that only a handful of commercial beekeepers could make a living at it without a back up business !
 
Neil I employe 5 people in the landscaping and two on the farm...
No need to moderate.. But sometimes its best to look at the lower figures as a base because in the event of things going wrong or losses or projects going over any profit from previous whatever should balance that out.

Im only going on my experience of farming and landscaping..
I'm sure your knowledge of local wages etc is much superior to mine, as I said I was working on home counties levels and in the construction industry.
What I would say is I that I will turn over about £22k in my honey and bee sales plus my hive maintenance this year and if I was paying myself I could afford to draw about £8k on the business. Not a lot for an average of 2-3 days/week during the summer. Its a good job its just a hobby! :laughing-smiley-014
 
I'm sure your knowledge of local wages etc is much superior to mine, as I said I was working on home counties levels and in the construction industry.
What I would say is I that I will turn over about £22k in my honey and bee sales plus my hive maintenance this year and if I was paying myself I could afford to draw about £8k on the business. Not a lot for an average of 2-3 days/week during the summer. Its a good job its just a hobby! :laughing-smiley-014
Local wages are crap here team leaders get paid £12 Per hour labourers are lucky to get 10... The marked difference from Shropshire and the border towns in comparison to down south is crazy..
I my self have worked nr the Birdlip( well the other side) and I was able to get more for the guys then.. They were given a bonus because travelling from here to there was the best part of two hours.. I try and be fair as I can.. Its ashame wages vary so differently... As does honey prices..
I've always tried to pay my self a wage.. In the early days when it was just me and a labourer..
You say it's a hobby Neil year in year out are you not getting paid more??
With a thought to achieve more..

I think any hobby that becomes a vocation is the best way, and the most satisfying thing anyone can do..
Me and the are I think on the same page:).
 
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