I've gotta be wrong on this! No brood!

[alynewbee]

Hi all, hope someone can set my mind at rest. I was given a swarm last Thursday pm (my first ever) which I put in my hive (which had only foundation in it). The ladies stayed and have been peaceable around the garden while I left them alone to settle in. I did my first inspection today with a little trepidation. But they were fine, quite buzzy but just going about their business, so no stings. THis is what I found but I must be wrong cos it makes no sense to me. They had drawn both sides of all the foundation, the outermost comb only slightly, but definitely lots of work going on there. As I moved towards the brood nest bit there became more and more nectar in the cells, then capped honey at the top of four frames, both sides and again, loads and loads of nectar. Some pollen, but not masses of it. But to my eye, no eggs at all and certainly no lavae. No cells that look like swarm cells, or play cups or anything like it. On the practical sessions of my course I could pretty easily spot the larvae (not so easily the eggs though - my failing eyes). Loads and loads and loads of bees. Another thing is that there were a lot of bees between the crown board and the roof (must've got through the holes in the crown board) and they were making wild comb up there - nothing in it so I cut it off and put it in my bucket at the end of the inspection. I've closed them up now and am perplexed. Could anyone shed any light on this or have I just been dreadfully impatient and need to wait longer to see larvae? Any help would be much appreciated. I'm in Hampshire, it's been lovely and warm pretty much all week since the ladies arrived.

 

[snoop]

Probably a virgin queen not mated yet. you will notice them polishing up cells in the frames before the new queen starts laying. Sometimes eggs on newly drawn comb is very hard to see. as the comb colour is light & the egg is white. Give it time.

 

[Midland Beek]

Do not underestimate the speed at which a swarm can work. WIld comb being constructed in the roof space is the bees saying "we need more space". Time to put on the queen excluder and first super ... yes, even if there is no brood.

If the swarm was a second swarm headed by a virgin queen it can be up to a month before she starts laying.

PS Have a think about how you plan to run your hives, as in 'single brood', 'double brood' or 'brood and a half'.

 

[grahambee]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9774

I did my first inspection @ 8 days and a had no brood on a swarm
inspection today week 3 and have 100s

 

[CBP]

If pollen is going in then I would suggest that either the Queen is laying, or laying is imminent.

If the bees where put in a box of foundation last Thursday then we can assume it took a couple of days to draw out somewhere for the Queen to lay, so at most any brood will be 5 days old. The first 3 days they will be eggs, so you may have 2 day old larvae in there (which are very small).

I wouldn't be worried about the brood, the pollen going in is a very good sign. I would be very worried about the lack of space for the bees, as indicated by them drawing comb in the roof!

As per the previous post, it's time for either a 2nd brood chamber, 1/2 brood or Queen excluder and super.

 

[alynewbee]

Dear Midland Beek, yes, the question of brood size is keeping me up at night - I kid you not! I was offered the loan of a national hive from my BKA, and as budget is tight, I said yes and have put the swarm in there. I've since bought a second hand national brood and some supers and have filled them with foundation in prep for any QS action I may have to deal with. But, over the last few weeks I'm really starting to worry about that decision. I don't think I'll be able to contain them in a single national brood box here in Hampshire and the thought of brood and a half fills me with dread (and I barely see a good word said about it in books). I have to give my loaned hive back in April next year. So I am thinking to myself that I really should be going with 14x12s. I could ask him indoors to make me an 'eke' to convert the second hand hive I bought to fit in 14x12 frames, but I cannot modify the one I borrowed, as they want it back in the condition they lent it to me. What a dilemma! In the ideal world, I would get the ladies onto 14x12 asap but not sure what the best way to achieve that would be. Also, would 14x12 be enough in a typical year (and by what I am reading, this is nothing like a typical year!) As it is my first year, I really don't feel capable of managing more than one colony - although I realise I'll probably have to consider temporary splits as part of my attempt to manage swarms but I would like to end the season on just one colony. Sorry to be so rambling - but you really have hit my major concern on the head.
My plan for today is to do nothing overnight, and then tomorrow if the weather is good to put the QE on top of my brood box and then my prepared super on top of that. If there are lots of bees in the roof space again, should I brush them all down just in case the queen is up there before I put the QE on? Also, should I block off the holes in the crown board cos they will just keep on popping up to the roof if I don't? I'm on an OMF. Phew - I owe you an 'e-coffee' just for the time it'll take you to read that, but I really appreciate the help. Aly

 

[oliver90owner]

WIld comb being constructed in the roof space is the bees saying "we need more space".

Not really. What it certainly means is you have allowed access for the bees, which should not be there. Bees will usually try to build at the top-most point and work downwards. One often gets away with leaving open holes in the crownboards when comb is drawn, but with a swarm you are asking for comb to be built if they have access. The holes (usually two) are either for using the crown board as a clearing board or for a feed hole.

RAB

 

[Poly Hive]

Just a sour note, pollen being gathered is NO indication at all that the colony is queen right.

PH

 

[Dishmop]

Could it be that the cells are not yet deep enough for the queen to be laying in them?
Having watched bees in my obs hive for the last 9 days building comb on foundation, it looks as if they put honey in it even tho they have not quite finished building it to full depth...
Top frame they are filling with honey.. On the lower frame they are still building and have put some stores in , but, not near the centre of the frame....

 

[alynewbee]

Thanks all for your replies and your patience with my long posts. Going to block up those holes, makes sense, should have thought. Thanks again.

 

[Poly Hive]

A queen right swarm is going to start having eggs in four to five days.

A virgin headed swarm will take up to a month to start laying.

A swarm is a bonus, one of natures gifts so although not a horse... dinna look in the "mouth" too soon.

PH

 

[Teemore]

Dishmop, a Queen will start to lay in cells that are only partially drawn - especially an impatient Queen who has just swarmed. The colony will build the cells up around the egg.

 

[Dishmop]

Dishmop, a Queen will start to lay in cells that are only partially drawn - especially an impatient Queen who has just swarmed. The colony will build the cells up around the egg.

Shall have to have stern words with my queen then.....

 

[alynewbee]

Dear Poly, you are so right. Patience is a virtue and one that these lovely bees are beginning to teach me - my other half will be so pleased!