Is there a need to insulate outside the hive?

[prana vallabha]

is there a need to insulate the brood chamber outside i,e -with kingspan for example or is this overkill . I have 50mm of kingspan above crownboard is this enougth for wet and windy wales ....

many thanks for your thoughts in advance

 

[Swarm]

There are plenty who do not insulate their hives at all. Personally I'd leave your current set up but that's just my opinion.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Mine were ok with just top insulation last winter in wet/windy Talsarn

 

[drstitson]

top only IMHO (50-100mm).

 

[TOBY-3652]

i put 2 bits of carpet above crownboard and leave the slide out.. iff it gets windy i sometimes put the slide in 2 keep the wind from blowing in the o,m,f.

 

[oliver90owner]

Several of mine have had 25mm thick sheets of EPS tucked in between the top and bottom bars for years.

Certainly has done no harm and can only have reduced the colony stores requirement for those several winters.

I have insulated the sides of a Dartington with 50mm EPS in the past. That hive was certainly an early starter in spring. The insulation in the ends also kept them snug (inside the hive but outside the broodnest area).

Still had mostly open OMFs all winter; only partially closed off for those in the garden during very cold periods.

Deep roofs also go a long way towards fending off the worst of the weather and black polythene bags draped loosely (trapped in position between crownboard and roof) down the sides of the hives, to deter woodpeckers, must also add a bit more protection from the elements.

I'm not saying the excessive thickness of PIR hives pushed by one forum member is altogether necessary, but cosy hives is not a bad thing IMO. My poly's don't get any extra, but that said, they don't have a flimsy roof like one example on the market.

RAB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There are plenty who do not insulate their hives at all. Personally I'd leave your current set up but that's just my opinion.

And mine

Mine were ok with just top insulation last winter in wet/windy Talsarn

top only IMHO (50-100mm).

 

[madasafish]

I insulate sides roof and bottom of all my TBHs - and place the follower board in below the OMF all year.

I intend to fully insulate my (wooden) Langstroths which are in build just now..

Anyone south of Birmingham lives in a warm climate compared to ours.. and it is notable (largely) that those who don't see the need to insulate live either south of Brum or near the sea or near sealevel or in a major city - I don't. We live on the edge of the Staffordshire Moorlands approx. 150 meters above sealevel, on the edge of the country and with cold winds rolling down from the Moorlands.. and that's just in summer

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Having taken a large delivery yesterday which employed 25mm expanded polystyrene sheet as protective packing I shall uses it to make a drop on insulated box for one of my 14 x 12 hives. Then knock up an oversized roof to slip over it as weatherproofing. I have also found a supplier of cheap 8' x 4' substandard 25mm kingspan so I plan to make up some more with that so all my hives will be warm for the winter. Cost peanuts - effect to be seen.

 

[Davelin]

Top insulation only in wet and windy Somerset seems to be adequate

 

[BeeJayBee]

is there a need to insulate the brood chamber outside i,e -with kingspan for example or is this overkill . I have 50mm of kingspan above crownboard is this enougth for wet and windy wales ....

It might depend on the type of hive and the size of the colony. Poly hives shouldn't need anything else to the vertical faces, but would probably benefit from a thicker slab of insulation beneath the metal roof.

If you have a colony that's too big for a nuc, yet too small for a full brood box, you might be able to squeeze some insulation inside the brood box as well as on top.

A possible benefit of insulating the vertical faces of the hive is that it may help avoid woodpecker damage, without the risk of smaller birds getting themselves tangled in fine netting. (Some people use thin plastic netting to deter woodpeckers, I don't think it's a good idea.)

DerekM will tell you that all-round insulation is a good idea, others will tell you it isn't necessary. It's up to you to decide which will do the least harm to your bees.

 

[Arfermo]

I'm 60 to 70 miles NE of you but don't insulate at all and have never lost a colony due for lack of it (so far as I am aware of course). I have lost a couple of colonies due to DLQ or starvation only, the latter my fault entirely of course. Lesson well learnt since. Sometimes I slip in the varroa board when the weather gets beyond reason and am tempted to stick an empty super between stand and BB for draught proofing but don’t seem to wind with any empty ones for the purpose.

 

[Skyhook]

is there a need to insulate the brood chamber outside i,e -with kingspan for example or is this overkill . I have 50mm of kingspan above crownboard is this enougth for wet and windy wales ....

many thanks for your thoughts in advance

To answer your question as directly as possible- you do not need to do this, but some would consider it beneficial. I would suggest that the greatest benefit is likely to be found by the weakest colonies- for example I am doing this for nucs.

By putting kingspan over the crownboard I would say you have done what is required- there may well be additional benefits to further insulation, but the research and the discussion is ongoing.


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[Goran]

As I learned colony will never die of cold during the winter, only sickness and starvation.. I heard many times as mantra that in Siberia put the colony in wire cage with only combs, roof and side wall on the northern side and on below minus 30 celsius and colony survived..
I have 20mm wooden wall, no additional insulation till now ( thinking of some in the roof and some as manipulation for preparing colonies for next season - another story..). My first apiary is on open at top of the hill.. Continental climate with snow and stuff..
I can say that from 2010 when got first colonies till now during the winter lost one colony due to ( isolation) starvation and one I shook out cause of laying workers.. Last winter zero losses. For this winter will see.. Now I stepped back to 47 from 50 and will see what will happen till spring ( April is considered when counting the winter losses here)..
I put few pics of some of my hives during the winter in photo albums..

 

[pargyle]

Well... a few years ago most UK beekeepers were putting matchsticks under the crownboard for through ventilation in winter and solid floors were derigeur ..

Now most people are insulating on the top of the hive and a some are adding 'hive cosies'. So things have come along away's ....

My hive is permanently insulated on the walls .. constructed of an inner skin of 30mm reclaimed T&G floorboards, 30mm of HD polystyrene and 15mm close boarded timber on the outside. There's thick dividers and Kingspan dummy boards at either end of the colony space as well. It's proving to be a cosy nest for them and no signs of condensation. I'm encouraged by RABS comment that an insulated Dartington (my hive is similar to a Dartington) that he had was an early starter in spring ..

In the UK's highly unpredictable climate I can see only positives from adding insulation ... I'm measuring my colony temperatures over the winter and I know there is more sophisticated research going on elsewhere so perhaps next spring there will be more substance to back up my supposition.

 

[user 6228]

To get to a thermal conductance similar to a tree you will need to insulate the sides as well. I am currently testing a hive that has perfectly good top insulation but it's limited by the side insulation so that you can only get the top 50mm above 20c above ambient using 20W. while top insulation is a good start it's limited in how far it can take your hive.
Therefore, from my measurements you really need to insulate the sides and have that insulation sealed to the top insulation.

 

[Skyhook]

As I learned colony will never die of cold during the winter, only sickness and starvation..

I can say that from 2010 when got first colonies till now during the winter lost one colony due to ( isolation) starvation ..

I would consider isolation starvation as dying of cold- if the bees weren't so cold they can't move around the hive, they would move to the food.


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[Goran]

I believe You are right, that it would survive..
But at the other hand my mistake is I wanted to overwinter relatively weak colony.

 

[Tom Bick]

As with most of the others, top insulation is good and if the colony is small, some insulated dummy boards are a big help.

 

[user 6228]

I believe You are right, that it would survive..
But at the other hand my mistake is I wanted to overwinter relatively weak colony.

You need to match the insulation level to the power input