Is there a need to insulate outside the hive?

[ichbinpaul]

I'm afraid you are beginning to blather a bit now DM - it has become an onsession and if you're not careful it will begin to gall

Why? dont you wrap you dog in bubble wrap when taking him for a walk like most pessimist?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why? dont you wrap you dog in bubble wrap when taking him for a walk like most pessimist?

I don't take him out just in case - hasn't left the dining room for five years now.

 

[mbc]

Is anyone concerned about off gassing of cellotex ?

 

[Itchy]

Is anyone concerned about off gassing of cellotex ?

Yes

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

got enough problems with personal off gassing at the moment, I'm not arf bloated

 

[mbc]

Yes

good

 

[oliver90owner]

I'm afraid you are beginning to blather a bit now DM - it has become an onsession and if you're not careful it will begin to gall

There are rather more things to consider than the simple question posed by the OP.

Strength of colony, topography of site, actual construction of hive, etc, etc.

I would say that generally 11 or 12 frames of honey and pollen stores likely affords a deal of insulation for the cluster. Yes, colonies do set up home outside - but likely fare worse than a cosy colony away from the elements. Eaves and window reveals were not around ten thousand years ago and bees were likely limited to the very south of the British Isles due to the receding ice age. Those that set up home in the open likely paid the price and were no longer in the gene pool.

William Broughton Carr devised his hive around the extra afforded protection of a double wall. Maybe he was right - I certainly found the WBC to be a superior over-wintering hive to the single-walled National.
Some even filled the cavity with straw or sawdust to assist the colony in over-wintering. I don't think those who did that were misguided cranks.
Soo, it depends on what you, the beek, wants. Some may say 'I don't really care, as they appear to get by without any extra insulation'. I actually am more practical than that and realise that extra insulation is good - at least up to a point; I recognise that an early start to brooding in spring does require some help on occasions.

I know that a colony can easily survive in a 6 frame hive with 6mm side walls. BTDT. Do I do it as a norm? No.

I know that extra insulation, particularly above the box when on OMF, is good for the bees, if only to reduce my costs for extra winter feed and their needs for stores during those coldest months. Whether that translates to extra insulation on the outside of the hive is up to the individual beek. That word 'need' is just a tad subjective. As I posted earlier, some of mine have/have had extra insulation and, as above, the colony in the nuc with 6mm walls got through the winter. So not a necessity but likely a help for them - as long as it is not over-done to the extreme.

RAB

RAB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Well said RAB

 

[user 6228]

I'm afraid you are beginning to blather a bit now DM - it has become an onsession and if you're not careful it will begin to gall

I can see I won't be invited to present to your BKA then.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You never know

I could introduce you to our feral beekeeper (his bees aren't feral BTW) had to apiguard his hives last month - gaping holes in crownboard (and the sides of his hives actually) in fact one had no crown board whatsoever and the roofs - bits of UPVC fascia tacked together.
But they are the most vigorous colonies in the apiary!!

 

[pargyle]

Well said RAB

Good Post ...

 

[user 6228]

Yes

The length you need to go to stop the bees getting into it and to stop warm air leaking past I.e. Various sticky sealing tapes, mean that is not likely to be an issue. Besides we haven't seen any mysterious die off in the 5 hives made completely out this stuff but then compare that to exposing them far larger quantities of oxalic acid, Formica acid....

 

[Itchy]

The length you need to go to stop the bees getting into it and to stop warm air leaking past I.e. Various sticky sealing tapes, mean that is not likely to be an issue. Besides we haven't seen any mysterious die off in the 5 hives made completely out this stuff but then compare that to exposing them far larger quantities of oxalic acid, Formica acid....

I meant for me..... just kidding. The possibility had crossed my mind. I'm in process of making it into dummy boards and lid insulation....that's about as far as I'm going this year. The WBC will be stuffed with meadow hay.

 

[pargyle]

The WBC will be stuffed with meadow hay.

Although hay will do it there is more chance of mice, moisture and insects in Hay ... I'd use straw which has little food value and tends to dry out if it gets damp whereas hay will go mouldy and rot.

 

[Itchy]

Although hay will do it there is more chance of mice, moisture and insects in Hay ... I'd use straw which has little food value and tends to dry out if it gets damp whereas hay will go mouldy and rot.

That's a good point. I can guarantee the quality (and pesticide freeness) of the hay, but the straw comes from vast farms so is of unknown quality.
I'll have a think

 

[user 6228]

I meant for me..... just kidding. The possibility had crossed my mind. I'm in process of making it into dummy boards and lid insulation....that's about as far as I'm going this year. The WBC will be stuffed with meadow hay.

It made me revisit the question. The blowing agent is pentane this is either a liquid or heavier than air gas at hive temperatures. The majority of the foam cells are gas tight the remainder are contained by the facings and tapes. Any that does escape will fall out of the bottom of the hive. I don't think it's toxic as it's chemically similar to butane.

 

[Itchy]

Wow, a wealth of info you are! Keep it up!