Is it too early to feed pollen substitute ?

[Sir Quej]

As the title says really. I'm asking because when i did my oxalic acid treatments at end of Dec all three of my hives looked very strong. We have had some bad weather since then and when i went to change the fondant on my hives at the weekend, i noticed that two of the colonies had dwindled quite a bit so wondered if putting pollen substitute patties on now might encourage them to start building up?

They have plenty of stores and i was just putting fresh fondant on as an extra security blanket, so to speak....

Any advice welcome....

 

[Heather]

Yes. The weather needs to be a little warmer as the pollen subs will possibly encourage the Queen to start laying and the bees are not in broody mood yet.
March much better month- and it still depends on the weather

 

[Sir Quej]

Yes. The weather needs to be a little warmer as the pollen subs will possibly encourage the Queen to start laying and the bees are not in broody mood yet.
March much better month- and it still depends on the weather

Thanks Heather. What sort of temperature does it need to be?

 

[MuswellMetro]

Thanks Heather. What sort of temperature does it need to be?

Some of the long range forecasts predict a warm last week of February,so might wait till then, However Ted Hooper says pollen sub should be put on middle of February

so with Heather's that's three answers, so we are starting the new season in the way it will continue ask two beekeepers get three answers
i don't normally do it as there is no shortage of pollen in London but this year i am thinking of using patties as a method of administering Nozevit

 

[oliver90owner]

Well, it all rather depends on where you are and the forage potential.

Last year the OSR was blooming in the last week of instead of the more normal second week in April. To get a colony ready for the OSR you need a strong foraging force for the date decided by the beek. If the beek gets the wrong date, the returns will be less; last year the returns were abysmal. Either miss the boat or have to feed large expanding colonies for maybe a couple weeks or more.

Two laying cycle is six weeks and new bees need to have emerged about three weeks before they become foragers (for the start of the flow). So it won't be long now, before starting the expansion.

Pollen patties is anothe issue. Rather depends on what pollen stores they have and what pollen forage becomes available.

BTW, I never change the fondant; it is either on until it has gone or not on (taken off completely).

Temperature is irrelevant - the brood nest will be around 35. A water supply is likely more important than either the temperature or pollen patties. That is why 1:1 is considered (by most) the way to encourage early brooding.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Well, it all rather depends on where you are and the forage potential.

Last year the OSR was blooming in the last week of instead of the more normal second week in April.

It does, last year the rape here was in full bloom by the last week of March.

 

[Sir Quej]

Either miss the boat or have to feed large expanding colonies for maybe a couple weeks or more.

So if I'm happy to feed them, I could start building them up about end of Feb ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

So if I'm happy to feed them, I could start building them up about end of Feb ?

Once the bees are induced to raise unnatural amounts of brood by feeding, they must be supplied with the diet continuously and never allowed to run out until natural pollen comes in reliably. If they run out - even for a day - the brood they have started may be thrown out or develop poorly. Brood rearing takes a lot out of the old wintered bees and if the first spring brood cycle does not successfully raise new nurse bees, their fat bodies may be used up and they may not be able to raise much more brood later, even with fresh pollen coming in.

Feeding too early, with too attractive and short-lived a patty, and failing to keep the bees supplied, can result in hive decline or collapse. The collapse is not immediate; it comes several weeks later and can mystify the beekeeper. The explanation given for this effect is that supplements are not a perfect replacement for pollen; when raising too much brood with artificial diets with no new pollen, nurse bees deplete their body reserves dangerously.

From Global pattie website.

 

[Stiffy]

Fed mine mid Feb last year and they were bouncing in time for good weather end of March/April. I think I was lucky, maybe this year I will get caught out and have to keep feeding but I believe theres usually a good crop to be had early spring in my part of the country.
S


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[domino]

I'm not feeding mine pollen until I see some real flowers out and about.

 

[Sir Quej]

Fed mine mid Feb last year and they were bouncing in time for good weather end of March/April. I think I was lucky, maybe this year I will get caught out and have to keep feeding but I believe theres usually a good crop to be had early spring in my part of the country. k

What did you feed Stiffy? Pollen Substitute or 1:1 syrup?

 

[oliver90owner]

So if I'm happy to feed them, I could start building them up about end of Feb ?

Sorry, but you need to read my post more closely.

6 weeks would only afford one brood cycle and the three weeks before those emerged bees become foragers. They will still be busy expanding by the time the OSR may be out. Of course they may be starting to expand before the end of the month.

 

[REDWOOD]

I'm not feeding mine pollen until I see some real flowers out and about.

There is, gorse, real flowers are so much better producing pollen and nectar than artificial ones,

 

[Sir Quej]

So if I'm happy to feed them, I could start building them up about end of Feb ?

Sorry, but you need to read my post more closely.

6 weeks would only afford one brood cycle and the three weeks before those emerged bees become foragers. They will still be busy expanding by the time the OSR may be out. Of course they may be starting to expand before the end of the month.

So if I start building them up mid Feb,this gives 3 weeks egg to bee, followed by another 3 weeks to forager, which would take me to beginning of April?

 

[Stiffy]

What did you feed Stiffy? Pollen Substitute or 1:1 syrup?

Pollen substitute, not sure about using 1:1 early on as they need more than sugar to really get brood going if theres not enough natural pollen around.
S


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[MJBee]

In the last week all the hazel catkins have changed from brown to yellow. The only problem is rain/sleet/snow and temperatures below 5C therefore not a bee in sight

 

[Finman]

In the last week all the hazel catkins have changed from brown to yellow. The only problem is rain/sleet/snow and temperatures below 5C therefore not a bee in sight

It is same here. 2 feet snow and it is coming more. ...catkins are brown.

 

[Hivemaker.]

In the last week all the hazel catkins have changed from brown to yellow. The only problem is rain/sleet/snow and temperatures below 5C therefore not a bee in sight

Same here, except it is reasonably warm and sunny and the bees are collecting pollen from gorse as well as hazel, among other things.

 

[oliver90owner]

I think the OP needs to think this through far more carefully.

Think time scale; think number of bees; think nurse bees, think lay-rate; think brood cycle. That is apart from thinking of the nutrients (all, including water) needed for brooding.

I'm afraid the thinking so far does not appear to been joined up too well. A sheet of paper, and map out the time line, etc would be a good exercise, I think.

 

[alldigging]

I think the OP needs to think this through far more carefully.

Think time scale; think number of bees; think nurse bees, think lay-rate; think brood cycle. That is apart from thinking of the nutrients (all, including water) needed for brooding.

I'm afraid the thinking so far does not appear to been joined up too well. A sheet of paper, and map out the time line, etc would be a good exercise, I think.

Or one of those 2-dial things. Bee calendar wheel...