Is it petrol time...

[manek]

...or am I being a wimp?

I'm up to three colonies now, two of them good as gold, the third, with a recently hatched queen following a swarm, is full of absolute ******s.

They've been massively defensive, following for up to 20 minutes, attacking not just me but passers-by and people working nearby - so I've resorted to inspecting at the weekend when there's fewer people around.

My plan today was to get into the BB and dispose of HM, and either re-queen or let them supersede. I used a little smoke at first, and cover cloths to keep the frames dark, but I still couldn't get into the BB. They came boiling out, covering my gloves with bees and stings (I'd worn the thick gauntlets for this scenario) so I couldn't manipulate anything without crushing bees. Putting everything back together was a 'mare too because I ended up crushing bees despite taking as much care as possible while surrounded by a cloud of stingers.

This isn't fun. It's my third attempt to get into that hive and it can't go on, for the sake of others as well as me.

Is it petrol time? Or is there some other way or calming them?

 

[masterBK]

Years ago people used to add dried puffball to their smoker to subdue stroppy colonies. Best way is to move the hive several yards away several hours beforehand to bleed off the flying = older = potential stinging bees leaving the supers on the hive stand to pick them up. Then you will find the hive will be easier to handle and with less bees much easier to find the queen.

 

[BeeSpace]

One thing that helped me get in my nasty hive; move the brood box about 6 feet away. Put a spare brood box in it's place with a crown board or roof on. Wait for half an hour or an hour. Most of the fliers will leave the moved box and return to the spare, leaving the original brood box with mainly nurse bees, making it much easier to handle. I found this really helped me and made it possible to go through and find the queen. You can then re-queen, split down to nucs or take whatever action you decide on.

Edit: clearly I type too slowly as masterBK said it all while I typed!

 

[manek]

That's really useful, thanks. I'll give that a try.

 

[Beefriendly]

One thing that helped me get in my nasty hive; move the brood box about 6 feet away. Put a spare brood box in it's place with a crown board or roof on. Wait for half an hour or an hour.

The difficult part is moving the hive in the first place.....Particularly if double brood with a few supers on it.

I'd wait a little longer than an hour...as MBK says at least several hours. I usually leave mine until next day....Research has shown that the flying bees (your older defensive bees) don't make many foraging trips over the daylight hours, average around three, some only doing one; the hardest workers doing 10, so in an hour you won't lose many of your defensive bees. Although you can hope many are already out when you move.

Another tip is to put a pair of marigolds over your thick gauntlets...you can't tell when bee sting the gauntlets and "attack " pheromones build up unknown to you and this just adds to the carnage.
They find it far more difficult to sting smooth rubber surfaces as they have difficulty gripping on to them.

 

[Helen]

From a tip here, I poured a few drops of clove oil onto my hands today before going into my aggressive colony. They pinged me everywhere apart from the hands, so was much easier handling the frames.

I dispatched Her Maj last week, replacing her with a calm queen. Will take a little while for her genes to overcome the aggression, but hopefully on their way.

 

[Beefriendly]

That's a very good tip Helen...
I must try that this week on my problem hive....

 

[manek]

The difficult part is moving the hive in the first place.....Particularly if double brood with a few supers on it.

I'd wait a little longer than an hour...as MBK says at least several hours. I usually leave mine until next day....Research has shown that the flying bees (your older defensive bees) don't make many foraging trips over the daylight hours, average around three, some only doing one; the hardest workers doing 10, so in an hour you won't lose many of your defensive bees. Although you can hope many are already out when you move.

Another tip is to put a pair of marigolds over your thick gauntlets...you can't tell when bee sting the gauntlets and "attack " pheromones build up unknown to you and this just adds to the carnage.
They find it far more difficult to sting smooth rubber surfaces as they have difficulty gripping on to them.

Good plan re the gloves - I'll try nitriles over the gauntlets - they're pretty smooth and I've got a box-full.

 

[enrico]

Trust me......you are not a wimp. .... Bravo for wanting to sort it out. If you do end up resorting to death for all then don't feel too bad. Once in a beekeeping lifetime that might be the only answer but good advice so far, try that first.
E

 

[xgeordie]

Its up to you if you want to persevere and the options you have. If my bees were attacking passers by then it would unfortunately be time for the soapy water - don't use petrol.

 

[deemann1]

I got a terrible nasty hive now was thinking on just killing them too. Every time I take the supers off I get covered in a blanket of nasty bees and I found it very scary to be honest, the noise of them trying to enter my suit buzzing like crazy it took me nearly 40 minutes to get them away from me yesterday those little bas....s... was thinking on moving them to loose the flying bees and then find the q and squash.
I will seal up the box left on original site

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Horrid experience but the bee-bleed is worth doing as earlier mentioned. You may also want to add a frame of open brood to that flyer box as it gets them to work on emergency QCs which seems to make them less bastards.

Further to BF advice who knows this stuff and who helped me, what worked was performing at about midday so alot of the flyers were out working. You then have the day for 636 Squadron to return to that box at original site.

Then that night or, the following night (to clean up completely), close up this flyer box and the open brood and take it somewhere way away, preferably 2-3 miles and keep.it there....Provided its away from people you can leave it for 3 or 4 weeks and then go pick it up again at that time. In my case they were like babies when i retrieved them and reintroduced to another with success post a split. I killed the queen they brought into the world though ...Even though I felt like Gregory Peck with the Daggers of Meggido!....That brood frame gives em something to work from.

Remember its worth buying new royalty from a reputable "gentle" supplier also...Avoid another from the same lineage. Again gives you comfort after what youve been through....You feel like youve cleaned up and this gives you more confidence to continue with the devil hive which is now far less evil and has that lovely 'pedigree' queen....

After you have requeened, with the flyers away and the new queen pheromone you get instant relief. And as you sip your well deserved tea, scotch or whatever with a profound sense of accomplishment, you can rest well knowing you have escaped unnecessary apicide.

I hope you keep at it. I am new and I assure you feel a better bee keeper for having put some effort into really keeping the bees. I am 8 weeks on from my nightmare and my bees are not perfect but very manageable now.

Best of luck!

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[Madge]

...moving them to loose the flying bees and then find the q and squash.
I will seal up the box left on original site

... Then that night or, the following night (to clean up completely), close up this flyer box and the open brood and take it somewhere way away ...

I understand the advice of moving the queen and brood away so that foragers return to a box on original site - but I don't understand what either of you mean with 'closing' boxes, and why you want to do that.

Deeman wants to close the box on the original site, and Jonny the 'flyer box' (which one is that?), and 'open' the brood box (why was it closed?)

Can either of you explain?

 

[MartinL]

You don't say where your hives are.

Are you going to have any adverse affects on others when you make them Q-???

I had something similar with my allotment bees but had nobody close by (other than soft fruit thieves) to upset.

I don't understand what either of you mean with 'closing' boxes, and why you want to do that.

the box on the original site, and Jonny the 'flyer box'

If you shut them in the night before you have better opportunities when moving them, they're not going to sting if they're locked inside.

The "Flyer Box" is the empty one you put (& leave) at the original site for the bees that fly from your brood box to go to.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

You don't say where your hives are.



Are you going to have any adverse affects on others when you make them Q-???



I had something similar with my allotment bees but had nobody close by (other than soft fruit thieves) to upset.





If you shut them in the night before you have better opportunities when moving them, they're not going to sting if they're locked inside.



The "Flyer Box" is the empty one you put (& leave) at the original site for the bees that fly from your brood box to go to.

As Martin says...you close it up with foam or tape in the evening when they are all in bed for the night and then move the box the next morning.

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[Madge]

As Martin says...you close it up with foam or tape in the evening when they are all in bed for the night and then move the box the next morning.

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Oh, that’s a completely different issue and has nothing to do with the advice about separating brood from foragers in order to find the queen in a less angry set-up.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Oh, that’s a completely different issue and has nothing to do with the advice about separating brood from foragers in order to find the queen in a less angry set-up.

Really? Okay...thanks for the confirmation.

(cough)

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[eltalia]

Is it petrol time? Or is there some other way or calming them?

Are you running single box "BB" excluder on?

Bill

 

[Madge]

Really? Okay...thanks for the confirmation.

(cough)

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I didn't confirm anything you said.

I can't see why you would want to stress the colony, and hamper their honey-production and brood-rearing by removing the foragers after requeening. (I admit, I missed that part of your reasoning in your original post.)

A colony's character changes almost immediately with a new queen - and if not, and you can't deal with an angry colony for two or three more inspections, then consider giving up beekeeping.

 

[manek]

Are you running single box "BB" excluder on?



Bill

Yes.

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