Is it petrol time...

[JonnyPicklechin]

I didn't confirm anything you said.





A colony's character changes almost immediately with a new queen - and if not, and you can't deal with an angry colony for two or three more inspections, then consider giving up beekeeping.

Strange advice. The character of this thread changed almost immediately with a new poster. If I can't handle such idiosyncrasies after two or three subjects, I'll consider giving up reading them.

 

[maddydog]

I didn't confirm anything you said.

I can't see why you would want to stress the colony, and hamper their honey-production and brood-rearing by removing the foragers after requeening. (I admit, I missed that part of your reasoning in your original post.)

A colony's character changes almost immediately with a new queen - and if not, and you can't deal with an angry colony for two or three more inspections, then consider giving up beekeeping.

The changing of character with a new queen has never happened for me and I've had my fair share of nasty hives! I've never had to resort to petrol either and hopefully never will do. Moving the hive a few yards does work when you want to inspect to dispatch the queen. Usually I split the colony into nucs and the same angry bees are there until the new queen's prodigy have replaced them.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

The changing of character with a new queen has never happened for me and I've had my fair share of nasty hives! I've never had to resort to petrol either and hopefully never will do.

Yes...as mentioned previously, I do notice an instant calming but only because I have pulled the flyers away...That said, I think there is a pheromone effect also but "character" only changes, at least I found, 6-7 weeks later after the re-queen. In my case I did not want to risk reintroducing nasty flyers to genetically nasty house bees because I am a London bee keeper so zero defensiveness can be tolerated as a respect to my close neighbours.

Perhaps i was being schooled by someone from the hills or valleys?

 

[Beefriendly]

There is a ying/yang effect with bee behaviour. If it's genetic changing the queen will have little effect untiul the old "bad" bees ahve died off. However, in some circumstances the queens seem to dictate the behaviour such that removing the "bad" queen and replacing can have an almost in instantaneous effect. I've seen all these scenarios. Which one you are dealing with at the time will never be obvious.

 

[eltalia]

Yes.

Sent from my Mi A2 Lite using Tapatalk

Too easy then.
You'll need a bottomboard(BB) and a temporary lid and some 3mm steel mesh.

Smoke them up placing new BB on a couple of housebricks.
Separate at excluder and lift the stack onto the BB, fix mesh over entrance.
Sort through broodchamber(BC) to locate queen and dispatch/remove.
Place excluder back on and close up with temporary lid.
Strap up the stack and move away to a new location more than 3kms away.
Wait at least two days before bringing it back to then place your selected
queen into the BC, the queen cage fondant replaced with a plug of loose
packed tissue paper, and the cage placed under a pushcage on frame #7
over empty cells and stores.
Check for any cups with jelly in them and remove those.
Place excluder over a sheet of newsprint and place stack on top of that.
Job done.

They'll be a bit quieter in the second part of the job but if you can get your
gear set the night before and tackle the recombine say an hour after dawn
on a fine day you'll see the best they can be. If truly stroppy bees it isn't
going to make a lot of difference when you do the initial work as contrary
to what I am reading here it is n0t "foragers" who are defensive but
housekeepers, the guards setting them off.
Okay...?..got it?

Bill

 

[MartinL]

I can't see why you would want to stress the colony, and hamper their honey-production and brood-rearing by removing the foragers after requeening.

This is just a temp measure to allow easier removal of HM.

Worked well for me couple of weeks agohttps://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=44597&page=4

 

[birdsandbees]

plenty of good advice, I had exactly the same scenario, they were vile last year, I couldn't even go near the hive without getting pinged! they were away from my main Apiary so I perhaps erroneously that I'd let them swarm and see what the daughter turns out like.
they didn't swarm! they ended up massive! it was as much as I could do to add and remove Supers, even then I was getting stung.
I waited until this spring to take action but by the time I could get a new queen they were already strong and nasty!
I did as above, moved the brood box and left the Supers on the old site, as it's an out apiary I could only wait the time it took to check the other hives, so about an hour, I can concur that this isn't long enough to bleed of the flying nasties!
I did find the queen after a second sweep and she was marked (confirmed the not swarmed) new queen in push in cage added and then had to brave it again after a few days to remove QC's from the vile queen.
as there was a fair bit of brood from her it's taken a while to get good but yesterday they were lovely! no attempt to sting me at all!

stick with it, it'll be worth it in the end

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

If truly stroppy bees it isn't
going to make a lot of difference when you do the initial work as contrary
to what I am reading here it is n0t "foragers" who are defensive but
housekeepers, the guards setting them off.
Bill

No doubt this will be controversial....

If this is so (in simple words if you can) how do you explain the very specific evidence that moving the foraging/field/flying bees immediately calms the source colony down?

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

and then had to brave it again after a few days to remove QC's from the vile queen.

In the same scenario I found the brood hive, post flyer separation, were certainly pussycats but no way was it anymore difficult. I didn't check for QCs so soon and under on advice from this board left them 7 days after the queen intro. But then when I did go through them, they were only slightly "pingy". I assumed (as my other post on this thread alludes) that I had bought a good couple of weeks of calmness given I had completely depleted the flying force.

 

[Beefriendly]

Also ignores some basic biology that bees venom quantities develop slowly from birth and reach max around 2-3 weeks old, as they become guard bees.

 

[Madge]

No doubt this will be controversial....

If this is so (in simple words if you can) how do you explain the very specific evidence that moving the foraging/field/flying bees immediately calms the source colony down?

Especially for Jonny (in as simple words as possible), Beefriendly is right:

Also ignores some basic biology that bees venom quantities develop slowly from birth and reach max around 2-3 weeks old, as they become guard bees.

What you've done with separating brood from foragers is reduce numbers. Perhaps (and I don't know whether that's the case), fewer bees and the lack of incoming food, calms the house bees down somewhat.

 

[eltalia]

Originally Posted by eltalia
If truly stroppy bees it isn't going to make a lot of difference when you do the initial work
as contrary to what I am reading here it is n0t "foragers" who are defensive but
housekeepers, the guards setting them off.
Bill

No doubt this will be controversial....

Carn't see why that would be, no two rescues are the same in terms of
the disposition of the bees. It would only be in an apiary where the lineage and
colony strength is universal you could expect to see commonality.

If this is so (in simple words if you can) how do you explain the very specific evidence that moving
the foraging/field/flying bees immediately calms the source colony down?

Stroppy/Antsy Bees are ( h i g h l y ) defensive where they believe they have a
colony to defend. Change that and the defensive level is lowered - note "lowered"
n0t eliminated.
To change that trait out completely requires up to maybe 90days in let's say
"inclement climates" owning sparse flows.
Clear?


Bill

 

[Vortex]

Not read through the entire thread, so don't know if it's been mentioned, but if you don't want your "defensive/aggressive" issues to continue you need to cull all the Drones as well as HM..

 

[birdsandbees]

well, I for one have never been stung by a Drone!

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

no two rescues are the same in terms of
the disposition of the bees.

Huh?

Stroppy/Antsy Bees are ( h i g h l y ) defensive where they believe they have a
colony to defend. Change that and the defensive level is lowered - note "lowered" n0t eliminated.
Bill

Yeah...always got that.

To change that trait out completely requires up to maybe 90days in let's say
"inclement climates" owning sparse flows.

Its not clear, no. I get what an "inclement climate" is but lose the message when it is used in quotation marks by you, wondering if it is metaphorical or if I, or someone else, used the term before. And when you say "owning sparse flows" do you mean "resulting in"?

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

I have seen and contributed to some strange awry threads but this one needs petrol.

 

[eltalia]

Huh?

Pointing to ferals... as the OP refers to.

Its not clear, no. I get what an "inclement climate" is but lose the message when it is used in quotation marks by you, wondering if it is metaphorical or if I, or someone else, used the term before. And when you say "owning sparse flows" do you mean "resulting in"?

Wellll I could have said "shi77y weather and bugg3all forage about as a normal
thing" buuuut I'd likely upset some sensitive villager in a sleepy mist covered vale
(somewhere) and so have only pebbles thrown my way - again.
One should be aware of the climatic conditions of any general audience, yes?

Bill

 

[Millet]

Why all the bickering...Petrol is never a option end of..a good bee suit and a good plan would end this thread..
And then we would have three maybe four nucs made from these angry bees to take us into next year with nice mated Queens.

 

[GuyNir]

Why all the bickering...Petrol is never a option end of..a good bee suit and a good plan would end this thread..
And then we would have three maybe four nucs made from these angry bees to take us into next year with nice mated Queens.

Absolutely right

 

[ShinySideUp]

I had an angry hive last year. My final answer? I did nothing, literally nothing. Don't inspect, don't mess with them and if they are running out of space (which you can see by just removing the crown board and peering in) then stick a super on. I put Apiguard on in August, again, didn't lift any frames.

This year? Quiet as lambs, I believe deliberately or otherwise, that they sorted themselves out.

Worked for me, might not work for you, who knows?