Is 2 frames of bees bad this time of year?

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CliffDale

House Bee
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
210
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0
Location
Cornwall uk
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
8
Just done the oxalic treatment. Its a lovely dry day here.

Most of the hives had 4 or 5 frames of bees, but 1 hive had only 2 frames.

At the end of the season they were strong and I left them on double brood.
They are down below at the moment. The upper brood box is full of honey so I am reluctant to remove the stores.

Any suggestions, I'm not sure what to do.

Cliff
 
I don't think there is anything you can do but are you sure there are only 2 seams? If you can look down the seams and see daylight coming up from the OMF then the gap is clear of bees, if not then the cluster might just be low down.

If you really do have only 2 seams then it does look as if things could get worse. The queen might have stopped laying for some reason and the strong colony you saw earlier was just made up of the last of the summer bees with no or very few winter bees left to take over from them.

But I wouldn't write them off and it would be worth trying to give them every chance by taking away the upper box as it will just be a cold space for them to heat. Check the stores in the lower box and give them frames from the upper box if required - add these to one side of the cluster so they don't have to move very far. A bit of insulation above the crown board would also be advisable in my view as such a small colony needs help to stay warm.

You have other colonies but I wouldn't suggest uniting them - too late and you don't know why they have dwindled.
 
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I'm sorry to say I'm in the same boat with one of my hives, 2 frames from a previously very strong hive. I'm blaming a high varroa count with mine, did OA and was a high (For me) count.

I did however have a similar situation last year and turned out ok, so, fingers crossed.

Mark
 
Two seams of bees kind of says they will die out in spring, and early spring at that. As soon as you get some flying days in Feb/Mar I would open them up and aim to reduce them down to keep things warm. Putting them in a nuc with pollen and honey frames would be a good idea.
 
Maybe move box of honey/stores presently on top to below, and if on OMF insulate quilt/crownboard.
Then bees could be inbetween the boxes?

IMO would leave to get on with things, I button mine up for winter and besides the weekly heft and new years oxalic vaporisation let well alone!

Good Luck
 
Good suggestion, I think I will swap the boxes over and insulate the roof.

Very quick job to do, 30 to 40 seconds with 2 of us.

Thanks
 

No... not quite!!!
Aunties Ukrainian Vaporizer was nor a great success, having somewhat flimsy wiring .....so the family sold some more silver and bought me the Varox version from Thoorness beestore.

fits easily in the OMF Nationals, but a bit of a squeeze to get it into my modified OMF WBCs.
Will make up a cover to slide in under, where the monitoring board fits... may enen do that for the Nationals too !

Did not really need to wear the Kirby Morgan hardhat as leads long enough to keep away from the fumes!
 
Just done the oxalic treatment. Its a lovely dry day here.

Most of the hives had 4 or 5 frames of bees, but 1 hive had only 2 frames.

At the end of the season they were strong and I left them on double brood.
They are down below at the moment. The upper brood box is full of honey so I am reluctant to remove the stores.

Any suggestions, I'm not sure what to do.

Cliff


i think a major dwindle like that is likey to be Nosema Apis or Nosema Ceranae, could you test some of the bees?

if it is Nosema you may need to treat your other hives, and the OA may tip them over the edge
 
I'm blaming a high varroa count with mine,

There should be very few colony failures due to varroa. The problem I suspect is a poor efficacy with apiguard, possibly coupled with doing it too early. I'm guessing you used apiguard?

Just think numbers and double up each month. Remember the DEFRA 'double each month' is likely on the optimistic side as there would have been little drone brood in most hives for the larger part of the intervening time for their increase.

Mite numbers should still be below a critical level if a) the treatment was done in September, b) there was not an excessive number of mites at treatment time, c) few have been picked up on robbing bees (or bees drifting from adjacent collapsing colonies) and d) the treatment was effective.

Apiguard advertised it as high efficacy, quoting all sorts of climates, but with no results shown for the UK. Go figure why. I expect in poor conditions, like in this last September, for some it's efficacy was in the seventies. So don't blame the mite - blame the treatment is my suggestion.

In my view oxalic acid treatment is to reduce the need for other treatments in the next foraging season and has very little to do with preventing colony mortality in the next two or three months.

Ther is too much hype around oxalic as a 'colony must be treated' (as it will save it from becoming a dead-out before spring). If the mite loading was high it has already done the damage to the over-wintering bees.

Think of too many mites (lack of other IPM treatments) and only a seventy percent kill rate. Now that would be far too many mites. You might save the colony by treating in January, but the damage was done long ago and the spring build-up will likely be tortuous and slow.

Agree or not, that is my take on it.

RAB
 
I agree, it was late apiguard treatment when weather was cool, it was the second treatment from a highly infested bought in colony, buyers beware!

I think oa has its uses IMHO, it certainly helps my colonies and touch wood no negative effects to date.

Mark
 

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