introduction nuc

[sahtlinurk]

Hi all,

I got two queens coming from one of the breeders out there. They should be arriving in this coming week but i had an email that they might be a week late. to be confirmed again during the week.

These are my first ever bought in queens and i haven't introduced a queen before. Always been the natural swarming way. Read a lot and going to use a nuce to introduce her.

Now. I have couple colonies big enough to make the nucs up. Went through them today and no swarming signs yet. Read that the nuce has to be made up from colonies with no swarming signs other wise the introduced queen will be killed.

Can i make up the nucs now or do i have to wait till i know for sure when the queens arrive?


cheers,
Lauri

 

[mjt68]

If you make it up now, the bees will draw emergency QC from any brood. If you wait and make it up with queen in hand, they won't.

 

[Eyeman]

You've read up about new queen introduction so will be aware of the various method.
All methods carry a risk that the queen may be rejected. A belts and braces approach would be:
1.Making a nuc from the parent hive.
2. leaving it for 6-7 days then removing all the queen cells to make it hopelessly queenless.
3. introducing the new queen onto an area of shortly to emerge sealed brood using a push on cage then releasing her several days later after checking the bees are calm around her

 

[snelgrove]

make the nuc up an hour or two before introducing the queen, this is enough time for the bees to realise there queenless and before cells are started. Leave the block on the cage for first 24 hours and then remove leave well alone for 7 days. better still use and introduction grid over emerging brood. No method is without risk

 

[sahtlinurk]

watched the video using introduction grid. will go and make one up now.


thank you for the advice,

Lauri

 

[B+.]

Can i make up the nucs now or do i have to wait till i know for sure when the queens arrive?

Hi Lauri

A method that works well for me is to raise combs of brood above the queen excluder (the bees will raise emergency cells but you go through and destroy these). By the time your queen arrives you have only sealed brood above the excluder and young bees. This can be lifted off and a nucleus formed from it (ideally at another location to prevent the loss of returning foragers).
Your purchased queen will come through the post in a mailing cage with a number of workers (6-8) to attend her during the journey. These can be removed by placing the cage inside a clear plastic bag, opening the cage and flipping them out. The queen will often leave too and may even try to fly so the plastic bag is important. You can manouvre the queen back into the cage by herself. The reason for seperating the queen from the workers is to make sure that she solicits food from the workers in the nuc (and her pheremones spread) rather than the attendants. If the attendants did it, there is a chance that the workers in the nuc would kill your queen.
Some people introduce the queen in the travelling cage by removing the plastic tab covering the fondant and allowing the workers in the nuc to lick their way through. However, I prefer to transfer the queen to a push-in cage positioned over some open nectar cells and seales brood. This allows her to feed herself if necessary and come back into lay (she may have been in the post for several days so may have slimmed down and gone "off lay"). As the brood emerges, these bees will take care of the queen and she will return to full laying condition. The cage can remain in place for several days.
When you come to release the queen from the push-in cage, observe how the workers outside the cage behave towards her. If they show any sign of aggression (biting the bars of the push-in cage or trying to sting your queen), you have a queen in the nuc which you may not have seen. She will have to be removed.

 

[sahtlinurk]

queens arrived yesterday and are now under the push-in cages in 5 frame nucs. will check after 4 days to see how they are doing.

Lauri

 

[B+.]

queens arrived yesterday and are now under the push-in cages in 5 frame nucs. will check after 4 days to see how they are doing.

Lauri

Well done. This is the hard bit though. Waiting

 

[sahtlinurk]

Lets say the queen will be accepted and starts laying. how do i go on about joining them to my main hive?

My thoughts were to remove old queen with couple of frames into nuc box and join the new queen nuc box on top with newspaper.

How long should be the waiting periods between new queen laying before combining and old hive queenless before combining?

cheers,
Lauri

 

[B+.]

How long should be the waiting periods between new queen laying before combining and old hive queenless before combining?

They know they are queenless very quickly (you will hear a change in the tone coming from the colony). A couple of hours should be sufficient. Uniting by newspaper is the way to do it

 

[sahtlinurk]

both queens accepted. in both nucs bees had chewed they way in under the cage and were alright with the queen.

Now how long till i can emerge them to their dedicated hives? dont want to keep them in the nucs too long as they are meant to replace some old grumpy queens.


cheers,
Lauri

 

[Poly Hive]

How strong are the nucs?

PH

 

[sahtlinurk]

both sit on 5 frames - 3 brood frames and two food frames. brood is all in its last emerging stage.

 

[Poly Hive]

Ok so if I understand the situation it is this.

You have two hives with grumpy queens but not in swarm mode?

You have two nucs with two very recently introduced queens and none of the bees in the nuc belong to the queens?

or is it something else?

PH

 

[sahtlinurk]

this is very much the situation.

Lauri

 

[Poly Hive]

Ok and your plan is please?

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

both queens accepted. in both nucs bees had chewed they way in under the cage and were alright with the queen.

Now how long till i can emerge them to their dedicated hives? dont want to keep them in the nucs too long as they are meant to replace some old grumpy queens.
cheers,
Lauri

No point in going to all that faff and then uniting them with another (albeit Q-) colony until she is on her own brood and being attended by her own bees - otherwise you might as well do it the uncomplicated way and putting her into the receiving colony in an introduction cage.

 

[Poly Hive]

You are looking at three weeks here.

PH

 

[Brian Bush]

Hi Lauri

A method that works well for me is to raise combs of brood above the queen excluder (the bees will raise emergency cells but you go through and destroy these). By the time your queen arrives you have only sealed brood above the excluder and young bees. This can be lifted off and a nucleus formed from it (ideally at another location to prevent the loss of returning foragers).
Your purchased queen will come through the post in a mailing cage with a number of workers (6-8) to attend her during the journey. These can be removed by placing the cage inside a clear plastic bag, opening the cage and flipping them out. The queen will often leave too and may even try to fly so the plastic bag is important. You can manouvre the queen back into the cage by herself. The reason for seperating the queen from the workers is to make sure that she solicits food from the workers in the nuc (and her pheremones spread) rather than the attendants. If the attendants did it, there is a chance that the workers in the nuc would kill your queen.

This works well for me as well. I sort out the NUCs 3 days before using a frame of the oldest brood and then check for queen cells before introducing the new queen in an introduction cage. The plastic bag idea I learnt from this forum several years ago and it has proved fool proof. Before using it I have had to play hunt the queen in the car!!!!

 

[sahtlinurk]

No point in going to all that faff and then uniting them with another (albeit Q-) colony until she is on her own brood and being attended by her own bees - otherwise you might as well do it the uncomplicated way and putting her into the receiving colony in an introduction cage.

going through all this faff was the outcome of all the information i found from www and advice also from this forum to get the the queens as close to 100 % accepted.
but its done now and just got to move on to the next step.

So far the advice is to leave them till new queen has its own bees emerging. What is the reason behind it? all the young bees emerging from "old" added brood with new queen will accept her as their queen. Is there any scientific reason behind it ? Do other queens offsprings remember their "mother" so they have an attitude problem towards the new queen? Even though she was there before they came out of their cells?

One thing i can think of maybe worth the wait is the brood pattern and brood health? To see how well is she doing before joining with main colony.

Lauri