indicted by your wax?

[user 6228]

... For another thread, but a thing that caused me big issues, that will be of critical interest to many who might face random broodnest sampling is 'What is in your wax?'

If residues are found in your wax of things that have legal consequencees how do you prove you didnt put them in there?

Consider this: you are supplied with foundation contaminated with a controlled veterinary medicine. The bees in their usual way distribute this around the nest...

The inspector calls and takes a sample from the wax and the substance is found...you have to explain how it got there
now how do you get out of that?

 

[domino]

Why would you let an inspector take a sample?

 

[Into the lions den]

Why would you let an inspector take a sample?

Exactly. this case has highlighted the way complete cooperation can turn round and bite you.

Maybe three or four years ago I needed foundation reasonably quickly....like within a month...it was a fair amount and we use unwired cut to our specified special sizes. I was offered October delivery by one UK supplier (not much use for going to the heather!), the following March by another, and 'some time next year' by another.

A maker in France did it for us in one week, and after 8 days it was in my yard, a tonne and a half of it.

However..............

During 'honey sampling' as part of this process they stripped the hives down to the broodnest (which showed they were not interested in the honey anyway, as in that which would reach the market) and scraped the stores eyes out of the brood combs, sometime right out, so they had a mix of honey, wax, pollen, bees, splinters of wood, in some cases even the midrib went in, and they called it 'honey sampling'. (currently thinking of my own posterior)

Analyses came back with a host of contaminants and I was put in a bad situation about it.

Not sure what analyses are out there but I came across a document whilst defending myself against the allegation that concerned French bees wax, and the substances in it added by beekeepers. The most common were acaricides and the worst one was present in significant quantities in 62% of the samples. It was NOT and never had been an authorised treatment in France. I do not tag every frame to say where bought in wax came from but apparently they think I should.

When I said these samples were not 'honey' but rather a mish mash of everything and that alleging I was infringing MRLs IN HONEY for other substances. Only after the main investigator retired and was replaced was a test done that involved separating the wax from the honey. lo and behold, a sample that risked me having yet another charge actually had a near zero level of acaricides and comfortably passed. The products were in the wax. However it MUST be a concern to all that such wrong headed sampling can be done and portrayed as honey samples. All must be very careful.

This was what I was going to say in another thread as I mentioned in the main one.

There is nothing to indicated that any other mainstream EU provenance for wax is any clearer.

 

[For want of a better word]

Why would you let an inspector take a sample?

Because the Inspector asks nicely and the beekeeper agrees!

A full report is sent to you, but apparently the bee inspector does not get a copy.

We have had a few samples of wax and honey taken for testing over the past few years, including a jar of honey for testing by Trading Standards. [Cornwall] to set the common pollen contents for the area ( to compare to imported honey being sold as product of UK / Cornwall ?)

Never any problem.... but I could see things changing if the Inspectorate adopt the UberRegulation stance and direction that Defra's Tory overlords seem to be pursuing in other areas of farming?

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

There is nothing to indicated that any other mainstream EU provenance for wax is any clearer.

It sounds like they were out to get you for something Murray. Apart from being incredibly rude and destructive of your property, they clearly had an agenda. There's a lesson there for all of us.
I heard from my contacts in The Netherlands about a problem over there with wax foundation last summer. So much of what we buy is imported from China. If they don't bother about what they're selling, we have a problem.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

We should be told if buying Chinese wax can the big three suppliers in the UK guarantee this

 

[Finman]

We should be told if buying Chinese wax can the big three suppliers in the UK guarantee this

Why don't your burn Chinese wax as candles and save your own pure was to foundations.


.

 

[Erichalfbee]

We should be told if buying Chinese wax can the big three suppliers in the UK guarantee this

Well these are two packets of brood foundation from the same big supplier

 

[Into the lions den]

Well these are two packets of brood foundation from the same big supplier

Wax colour varies wildly, even in our mega wax melt over the last three months or so. From pale lemon yellow to almost olive. So the variability is most likely nothing sinister.

The bees are not fussy.

I once got a trial batch of Spanish foundation that was orange coloured and smelled like old car tyres. The bees absolutely loved it.

 

[user 6228]

My only guess is to:
From each batch of foundation take a sample (offcut?) put in a plastic bag with a note of the origin and date and seal it. Keep these sealed samples in dark dry cool place in case an inspector calls.
Asking to be able to trace every frame is unreasonable, they will be wanting tags on every bee next

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks for that.
I must say it smells fine

 

[Into the lions den]

My only guess is to:
From each batch of foundation take a sample (offcut?) put in a plastic bag with a note of the origin and date and seal it. Keep these sealed samples in dark dry cool place in case an inspector calls.
Asking to be able to trace every frame is unreasonable, they will be wanting tags on every bee next

As I discovered during this process, where the VMD is concerned, it is apparently the case that there is NO requirement for them to be reasonable.

 

[mbc]

As I discovered during this process, where the VMD is concerned, it is apparently the case that there is NO requirement for them to be reasonable.

But then they can only really operate with regard to bees with the complicity of the bee inspectors who do need to keep within the bounds of reason to ensure future cooperation.
Doing the vmd sampling is to me mind at a cross ethos to their (the bee inspectors) purpose and with sterner protection from the head of the nbu the inspectors wouldn't have to jeopardise the rest of their good work by doing this legwork for the vmd .
Public safety with regard to honey is protected at point of sale by trading standards and at processing by environmental health so vmd keep making up excuses to justify their continuing existence. Devils work mostly from what I can see.

 

[chrisb]

Wax colour varies wildly, even in our mega wax melt over the last three months or so. From pale lemon yellow to almost olive. So the variability is most likely nothing sinister.

The bees are not fussy.

I once got a trial batch of Spanish foundation that was orange coloured and smelled like old car tyres. The bees absolutely loved it.

 

[Into the lions den]

But then they can only really operate with regard to bees with the complicity of the bee inspectors who do need to keep within the bounds of reason to ensure future cooperation.
Doing the vmd sampling is to me mind at a cross ethos to their (the bee inspectors) purpose and with sterner protection from the head of the nbu the inspectors wouldn't have to jeopardise the rest of their good work by doing this legwork for the vmd .
Public safety with regard to honey is protected at point of sale by trading standards and at processing by environmental health so vmd keep making up excuses to justify their continuing existence. Devils work mostly from what I can see.

Read into this what you like. One of the key supportive figures in this process is a now former bee inspector.

I will quote what he told me, and I do not vouch for the accuracy of it or if it may have been given a bitter twist, but he told me the following.

NBU, and thus by default the inspectorate, are now part of a spun off entity operating under management/control of a private company.

There is to be an increasing emphasis on cost recovery.

That there is to be a shift away from advice and support towards investigation and enforcement.

*IF* true it is a matter of great sadness as the climate of trust between inspectors and beekeepers will be hugely damaged.


Now, in my case, the demeanor of some of the inspectors doing the sampling was one of resignation, and even reluctance. In the rural governance structure the VMD is way further up the food chain than the NBU. If they send out to have samples taken I very much doubt the inspectors have any say in the matter.

 

[mbc]

In the rural governance structure the VMD is way further up the food chain than the NBU. If they send out to have samples taken I very much doubt the inspectors have any say in the matter.

Of course not, but if the head of the nbu had a pair this would be different.

 

[dpearce4]

As I discovered during this process, where the VMD is concerned, it is apparently the case that there is NO requirement for them to be reasonable.

I know that feeling to my cost. I wont be allowing the Bee inspector onsite unless its because I called them from now on.

I'm just lucky that nothing was found.

 

[user 6228]

VMD enforcement strategy

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...57/VMD_Strat_017_A_-_Enforcement_Strategy.pdf

 

[mbc]

VMD enforcement strategy

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...57/VMD_Strat_017_A_-_Enforcement_Strategy.pdf

The devils turds, how do they sleep at night?