In a typical bee yard,...how often should you find a mean hive? And...

[naxx3]

So I was wondering about typical beeyard breakdowns on this...

Say you looked at maybe a larger yard, any yard, and looked at a few of them even; what is a normal breakdown probability, whatever for how often you'd find both mean hives in a yard, and also really gentle hives? And what should it be?

I'm not saying anyone with mean hives is bad or not a good beekeeper. I am wondering just about statistical randomness whatever. And anyone probably ends up with these. I'd become curious about how often this should occur.

 

[Ian123]

Ok hard question to answer. In the states I’ll think you may find there are also some local ordinance on numbers of hives in urban locations. Some areas of the country are also affected by Africanised bees, you need to do some research! Even the best bees can have a bad day, learning when and how to deal with it is part of good beekeeping.

 

[Erichalfbee]

So I was wondering about typical beeyard breakdowns on this...

Say you looked at maybe a larger yard, any yard, and looked at a few of them even; what is a normal breakdown probability, whatever for how often you'd find both mean hives in a yard, and also really gentle hives? And what should it be?

I'm not saying anyone with mean hives is bad or not a good beekeeper. I am wondering just about statistical randomness whatever. And anyone probably ends up with these. I'd become curious about how often this should occur.

What's your experience of this? What percentage of difficult bees do you have in your yard?

 

[drex]

In my apiary, queens that produce consistently nasty bees get culled. Having done this for several years now, nasty bees are a minimal occurrence

 

[Flyboy]

I do not tolerate consistently tetchy colonies. The thought of inspecting one (usually left for last) gives me a cold sweat in a already overheated suit.
Currently for me, in 5% of my colonies I accept a bit of attitude.
I want to look forward to inspections, not dread them.

 

[Boston Bees]

Never had a truly nasty hive, touch wood. Maybe 1 in 15 will be a hive that's more sensitive than other.

But it's a very difficult question to get a meaningful answer to. A colony might be docile when small, but get aggressive when very large (there are just more guard bees around, for one thing).

I think a lot of it comes down to the beekeeper. If the beekeeper is clumsy or careless, and inspects more often than they need to, they will be attacked, and will conclude that they have "mean" bees.

 

[Amari]

I have to confess that my bees are often angry and I rarely have a truly docile colony which I would examine without gloves.
Although I've kept bees for 49 years and am therefore experienced, I am not an expert such as many folk on here.

I don't formally rear Qs but most years buy 2-4 Qs from two breeders often recommended on this forum. I cull really nasty Qs. Otherwise most of my Qs are random mongrels. I believe they yield well: 600lbs 2020, 800lbs 2019.

Fortunately my three apiaries are well away from neighbouring dwellings. Maybe I'm clumsy, I don't wash my suit or gloves often, maybe I've got BO....... I don't wear after-shave or other gentlemen's toiletries.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Never had a truly nasty hive, touch wood. Maybe 1 in 15 will be a hive that's more sensitive than other.

But it's a very difficult question to get a meaningful answer to. A colony might be docile when small, but get aggressive when very large (there are just more guard bees around, for one thing).

I think a lot of it comes down to the beekeeper. If the beekeeper is clumsy or careless, and inspects more often than they need to, they will be attacked, and will conclude that they have "mean" bees.

Interesting you say about a colony being docile when they are small/young.

There's a lot of variables to take into consideration when assessing for aggressive behaviour.
Stores, wasp attack, livestock, weather, flow finishing. Size of colony and space, bee type.

I know a beek who likes there colonys to be a bit aggressive they are better at protecting the nest and can produce more honey.

 

[pargyle]

[QUOTE="Curly green finger's, post: 749068, member: 18818"

I know a beek who likes there colonys to be a bit aggressive they are better at protecting the nest and can produce more honey.
[/QUOTE]
Another beekeeping myth ... just an excuse for not sorting out a queen with bad genetics. They probably only make the same amount of honey that a decent temperament queen would in the same location and possibly less. If they do produce more on a side by side basis its probably because they are interfered with less during the season. Frankly its antisocial to allow drones from aggressive colonies loose in the area...

 

[Wingy]

For what it’s worth my experience since I started with 1 nuc in 2017.
Buckfast Q of known origin, very gentle. Inspections done in T shirt & rarely wore a veil. Hive built up but still nice & calm
2018 took 2 x Q’s / splits from it 1 Q slower to build up but still nice & gentle 1 Q was on double brood very quickly but a bit tetchy, not really stinging but made their presence felt, never inspected without at least my jacket on. Took a late split from this hive & bought another nuc.
Also collected 2 x swarms.
Into 2019 with 7 hives now of mixed temperament bought in another new Q and ended the year with 12 hives, had a couple that I kept making excuses for as they were IMO becoming a bit nasty. My description of nasty being I was taking a few stings. Now don’t get me wrong I never wear gloves (other than the blue nitrile type) & my suit is not sting proof.
2020 I continued and identified 3 hives all traced back to that 2018 Q that was a bit tetchy, they built up quickly & soon became un-inspectable (over 70 stings from 1 hive in 1 go). They were disposed of and the whole genetic line destroyed by disposing of the Q’s.
Starting 2021 I have 15 hives that look like they will come through winter (I’ve lost 1 this year). I have been going through my records and plan to keep 6 Q’s to start my season. As soon as the weather picks up I’ll be disposing of a few Q’s & combining the colonies. This will slow me to keep the ones that I want & strengthen the hives for the early flow. A couple of new Q’s later in the season as I make more hives / swarm control.

 

[rolande]

@nao57 So I was wondering about typical beeyard breakdowns on this...

What's a typical beeyard? 2 hives, 60, or somewhere between?

 

[Hachi]

So I was wondering about typical beeyard breakdowns on this...

Say you looked at maybe a larger yard, any yard, and looked at a few of them even; what is a normal breakdown probability, whatever for how often you'd find both mean hives in a yard, and also really gentle hives? And what should it be?

I'm not saying anyone with mean hives is bad or not a good beekeeper. I am wondering just about statistical randomness whatever. And anyone probably ends up with these. I'd become curious about how often this should occur.

There is also your definition of mean?

A mean hive in the right place can be a good thing

 

[Amari]

For what it’s worth my experience since I started with 1 nuc in 2017.
Buckfast Q of known origin, very gentle. Inspections done in T shirt & rarely wore a veil. Hive built up but still nice & calm
2018 took 2 x Q’s / splits from it 1 Q slower to build up but still nice & gentle 1 Q was on double brood very quickly but a bit tetchy, not really stinging but made their presence felt, never inspected without at least my jacket on. Took a late split from this hive & bought another nuc.
Also collected 2 x swarms.
Into 2019 with 7 hives now of mixed temperament bought in another new Q and ended the year with 12 hives, had a couple that I kept making excuses for as they were IMO becoming a bit nasty. My description of nasty being I was taking a few stings. Now don’t get me wrong I never wear gloves (other than the blue nitrile type) & my suit is not sting proof.
2020 I continued and identified 3 hives all traced back to that 2018 Q that was a bit tetchy, they built up quickly & soon became un-inspectable (over 70 stings from 1 hive in 1 go). They were disposed of and the whole genetic line destroyed by disposing of the Q’s.
Starting 2021 I have 15 hives that look like they will come through winter (I’ve lost 1 this year). I have been going through my records and plan to keep 6 Q’s to start my season. As soon as the weather picks up I’ll be disposing of a few Q’s & combining the colonies. This will slow me to keep the ones that I want & strengthen the hives for the early flow. A couple of new Q’s later in the season as I make more hives / swarm control.

That's a steep learning curve in four years!

 

[Curly green finger's]

[QUOTE="Curly green finger's, post: 749068, member: 18818"

I know a beek who likes there colonys to be a bit aggressive they are better at protecting the nest and can produce more honey.

Another beekeeping myth ... just an excuse for not sorting out a queen with bad genetics. They probably only make the same amount of honey that a decent temperament queen would in the same location and possibly less. If they do produce more on a side by side basis its probably because they are interfered with less during the season. Frankly its antisocial to allow drones from aggressive colonies loose in the area...
[/QUOTE]
I agree Philip a short reply.
If a beek is not controlling aggressive behaviour as part of there trait lines then they are lazy and my observations are that NO it makes no difference to honey production or protecting behaviour.
I've got a few queen's this season to squash.

In our area not up here but( south Shropshire) the mongrel genetics are quite high Amm stock.. But sad to say that there are buckfast, italian and Carnica genetics, not even stock that has been reared from scratch in this country locally

 

[GuyNir]

Weather is a factor also. I regard my bees being on the more ‘defensive’ side. Positioned in a woodland, normally without direct sunlight.

 

[jeff33]

For what it’s worth my experience since I started with 1 nuc in 2017.
Buckfast Q of known origin, very gentle. Inspections done in T shirt & rarely wore a veil. Hive built up but still nice & calm
2018 took 2 x Q’s / splits from it 1 Q slower to build up but still nice & gentle 1 Q was on double brood very quickly but a bit tetchy, not really stinging but made their presence felt, never inspected without at least my jacket on. Took a late split from this hive & bought another nuc.
Also collected 2 x swarms.
Into 2019 with 7 hives now of mixed temperament bought in another new Q and ended the year with 12 hives, had a couple that I kept making excuses for as they were IMO becoming a bit nasty. My description of nasty being I was taking a few stings. Now don’t get me wrong I never wear gloves (other than the blue nitrile type) & my suit is not sting proof.
2020 I continued and identified 3 hives all traced back to that 2018 Q that was a bit tetchy, they built up quickly & soon became un-inspectable (over 70 stings from 1 hive in 1 go). They were disposed of and the whole genetic line destroyed by disposing of the Q’s.
Starting 2021 I have 15 hives that look like they will come through winter (I’ve lost 1 this year). I have been going through my records and plan to keep 6 Q’s to start my season. As soon as the weather picks up I’ll be disposing of a few Q’s & combining the colonies. This will slow me to keep the ones that I want & strengthen the hives for the early flow. A couple of new Q’s later in the season as I make more hives / swarm control.

Thi is one of the issues with quite a lot of bees, especially buckfast from what I have heard. You may get away up to F2s before they turn nasty. In an area with mixed genetics and beeks keeping all sorts, it is just pot luck on how your bees will turn up as you go through new generations. My queen rearing apiary has 10 hives, 2 of them with 2020 queens seemed a bit defensive last year but they were quite small. They are getting the benefit of the doubt but will be culled by the end of April if they show any signs of aggressivity.
My friend half mile away got given a nuc last year, filthy lot, not super aggressive on inspection but will follow you for 100's yards and sting anyone they can find up to an hour after inspection. I certainly don't want these drones to meet with my queens so I will have to get them to cull her somehow.
I also picked up a prime swarm a couple of years ago, they were like lamb, gave me a good crop... Fast forward 12 months and they were hellish, culled!!

 

[BigAshW]

Thi is one of the issues with quite a lot of bees, especially buckfast from what I have heard. You may get away up to F2s before they turn nasty. In an area with mixed genetics and beeks keeping all sorts, it is just pot luck on how your bees will turn up as you go through new generations. My queen rearing apiary has 10 hives, 2 of them with 2020 queens seemed a bit defensive last year but they were quite small. They are getting the benefit of the doubt but will be culled by the end of April if they show any signs of aggressivity.
My friend half mile away got given a nuc last year, filthy lot, not super aggressive on inspection but will follow you for 100's yards and sting anyone they can find up to an hour after inspection. I certainly don't want these drones to meet with my queens so I will have to get them to cull her somehow.
I also picked up a prime swarm a couple of years ago, they were like lamb, gave me a good crop... Fast forward 12 months and they were hellish, culled!!

I picked up a colony from a fallen tree at the end of last season. Have them in a poly nuc at the moment. They are possibly a bit tetchy however because I'd given them some brood from other colonies and they'd been through a pretty traumatic time late in the season, (I couldn't save much of their stores so they were starting from scratch really), I gave them the benefit of the doubt as well. If they give me trouble this year I'll requeen them. I don't have time to deal with nasty bees.

 

[madasafish]

I don't wear gloves . My bees are in our garden. I like to cut the grass around hives (petrol mower) and strim around them (electric) with no need of any protection.
Anything vaguely horrible which interferes with my safe enjoyment of gardening or beeekeeping or my families' enjoyment is requeened.as soon as I have a Q available.

 

[jeff33]

I don't wear gloves . My bees are in our garden. I like to cut the grass around hives (petrol mower) and strim around them (electric) with no need of any protection.
Anything vaguely horrible which interferes with my safe enjoyment of gardening or beeekeeping or my families' enjoyment is requeened.as soon as I have a Q available.

How many do you have in the garden? I keep my nucs in the garden and transfer them to the apiaries before the spring starts. The 6 I had went yesterday.

 

[Boston Bees]

How many do you have in the garden? I keep my nucs in the garden and transfer them to the apiaries before the spring starts. The 6 I had went yesterday.

15, but behind a 4 foot fence to keep the dogs away