I'm breeding mites (well, DWV really)

[TryingToLetThemBee]

For me, the discovery of Type 'B' DWV http://www.nature.com/ismej/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ismej2015186a.html is the most interesting development in my time beekeeping, and I would argue for the last 23 years. I dropped 8,000 mites out of a colony in autumn 2014 and it was showing (and shows) no ill effects. Other colonies have shown varroosis at much lower mite loads and this colony has shown none. I did treat it in September (OA vape) but it still has mites, of course. It came in spring 2014 from a famous bee farm as an over-wintered nuc, so is a slightly different line from my other colonies. A theory that fits the facts is that is has DWV-B.

So my plan is as follows: I am going to vape again just to keep things manageable but deliberately less than full efficiency (2 vapes, a week apart now done). In spring I will vape one of my other colonies 3x5d and then, rather than destroying the drone traps from the suspected 'B' colony, transplant to this suspected 'A' colony (which is currently showing almost nil drop after autumn Apiguard) and try to overwhelm the 'A'-infected mites. The third production colony will be control.

Fingers crossed.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

sounds like a recipe for disaster IMHO

 

[For want of a better word]

Are you suggesting that the virus is the problem... not the carrier?

I was under the impression that the Varroa mite sucked the haemolymph from the bees and this lead to a reduced lifespan.

The fact that the Varroa mite also spread/ was the vector for the many bee disease virus was just the "double wammy"!

Mytten da

 

[Hivemaker.]

Are you suggesting that the virus is the problem... not the carrier?

Over the past 50 years, many millions of European honey bee (Apis mellifera) colonies have died as the ectoparasitic mite, Varroa destructor, has spread around the world. Subsequent studies have indicated that the mite’s association with a group of RNA viral pathogens (Deformed Wing Virus, DWV) correlates with colony death. Here, we propose a phenomenon known as superinfection exclusion that provides an explanation of how certain A. mellifera populations have survived, despite Varroa infestation and high DWV loads. Next-generation sequencing has shown that a non-lethal DWV variant ‘type B’ has become established in these colonies and that the lethal ‘type A’ DWV variant fails to persist in the bee population. We propose that this novel stable host-pathogen relationship prevents the accumulation of lethal variants, suggesting that this interaction could be exploited for the development of an effective treatment that minimises colony losses in the future.

http://www.nature.com/ismej/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ismej2015186a.html

...also http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=35485

 

[For want of a better word]

I get that... but I still do not like being bitten by mosquitoes!

Type B may block the virulent Type A... but what about the myriad of other viral disease the poor bees can suffer from?

I will continue to attempt to reduce the number of Varroa mites in my colonies for now!!

Yeghes da

 

[Hivemaker.]

I get that...

...call me "Dave".

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

but scaling down the treatment in the faint assumption/supposition/hope that one of your colonies has type B ? ....................................................

 

[Finman]

.
Letitbesimple
.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

@icanhopit Yes there are other viruses but DWV is the worst. I am not suggesting letting mites "rip", just investigating a possibility.

All: I am not planning anything hugely complex or risky, just a simple experiment to see whether in one colony I have what seems to be a less-lethal mite which research now says is something that exists so seems worth investigating in the context of the history of this colony.

It was an overwintered nuc 2013-14, then during 2014 threw a (smallish but prime) swarm during a Bailey comb-change into a brood box, 37 lbs of honey AND _8,000_ mites.

Worst case I go back to 8,000 of these mites in each colony but I do not intend that outcome.

ADD I was heavily influenced by a post somewhere that pointed out that as beekeepers we select FOR lethal mites inadvertently. Our treated colonies rob dying colonies so we give the lethal mites an advantage over natural selection, which would kill them off with the colonies, and which I had wrongly assumed would help achieve balance. I'm attempting to do the opposite, "correct", selection.

 

[Finman]

.
You should make a RNA research from those viruses. We all are interested, can you make difference with A and B with bare eye.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Here is a post similar to the one I referred to above about treatments selecting for lethal viruses/mites (might be the same one but don't think so) amid an intelligent discussion of this. You need to swap out SEEABOVE for a word that sounds like beesauce (sorry Mark/Pete)

http://www.SEEABOVE.com/forums/show...e-lethal-one-non-lethal&p=1344479#post1344479

 

[For want of a better word]

...call me "Dave".

Nah!... he would just want a "conversation " about it !!!

I wonder if Declan's team has developed a diagnostic for "A" or "B" DFV ?



Probably of more importance than which colour to paint your Darlington!


Nos da

 

[charlievictorbravo]

What you appear to be trying to do is introduce drones and mites that are (hopefully) infected with the Type B DWV into a colony that is (probably) already infected with Type A DWV bees and mites.

It might work but I have doubts as to whether mites introduced in this way, in comparatively small numbers, could "inoculate" the whole colony against Type A DWV. It might stand a better chance of success if the existing Type A colony had its mites reduced in numbers by "vaping".

If I thought I had a colony with Type B DWV virus, I would be doing splits and using other breeding mechanisms from that colony to try to ensure that that virus was spread rather that doing the same from colonies with the Type A virus. But, as Finnie would point out, I'm only a 3 hive owner with 3 years experience of beekeeping, so what do I know.

If the research done by Prof Declan Schroeder on the Swindon Bees is correct, and I've no reason to believe there's an error in it, propogation of the bees and mites with Type B DWV virus may well be a way ahead in the fight against colony losses caused by DWV. I'm surprised that the research is not more fully reported in the BBKA news letter or Beecraft but it may smack too much of a silver bullet, which the establishment always distrusts!

CVB

ps good luck, TTLTB, with your experiment.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

It might stand a better chance of success if the existing Type A colony had its mites reduced in numbers by "vaping".

CVB

ps good luck, TTLTB, with your experiment.

That's what I tried to describe in the OP. Sorry if it wasn't clear. And thanks.

 

[For want of a better word]

http://www.srcf.ucam.org/bluesci/2016/01/honey-bee-welfare-and-virus-warfare/

This dropped into my mailbox the other day

Nos da

 

[alldigging]

DWV got plenty of mention in:

I watched a honey show video yesterday which mentioned research
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZSGTsPQJCY

Talking about additive affects of multiple viruses and then how sub-lethal doses of neonics like thiocliopid or miticides like fluvinate can magnify the mortality rates of the same virus levels.
And they think it's the Nf-kB (dorsal) central pacemaker for immune system that's involved.

coinfected bees = synergistic interactions

http://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1002735#ppat-1002735-g007

http://www.pnas.org/content/110/46/18466.long

 

[Finman]

DWV got plenty of mention in:

I watched a honey show video yesterday which mentioned research
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZSGTsPQJCY

Talking about additive affects of multiple viruses and then how sub-lethal doses of neonics .mmmm]

Quite a mixed fruit soup. Not much to do with real world.

USA, Europe, Africa...... All in one bunch.

And bumble bees too. All are vanishing, but nothing have vanished.

According one English researcher Finland should have 100 % more beehives to pollinate rape fields. Pure nonsense.

.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I watched a honey show video yesterday which mentioned research
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZSGTsPQJCY

]

Did you notice what was up next, though?
https://youtu.be/BopnuGfJDpk

Worth watching if you can cope with the atrocious delivery and editing
Guess who makes the product?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

For me, the discovery of Type 'B' DWV http://www.nature.com/ismej/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ismej2015186a.html is the most interesting development in my time beekeeping, and I would argue for the last 23 years. I dropped 8,000 mites out of a colony in autumn 2014 and it was showing (and shows) no ill effects. Other colonies have shown varroosis at much lower mite loads and this colony has shown none. I did treat it in September (OA vape) but it still has mites, of course. It came in spring 2014 from a famous bee farm as an over-wintered nuc, so is a slightly different line from my other colonies. A theory that fits the facts is that is has DWV-B.

So my plan is as follows: I am going to vape again just to keep things manageable but deliberately less than full efficiency (2 vapes, a week apart now done). In spring I will vape one of my other colonies 3x5d and then, rather than destroying the drone traps from the suspected 'B' colony, transplant to this suspected 'A' colony (which is currently showing almost nil drop after autumn Apiguard) and try to overwhelm the 'A'-infected mites. The third production colony will be control.

Fingers crossed.

As the virus is latent in the bees rather than the mites (who just act as a catalyst by weakening the bees and making them more susceptible) you are much better off making increase from that colony rather than just shifting mites around.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

As the virus is latent in the bees rather than the mites (who just act as a catalyst by weakening the bees and making them more susceptible) you are much better off making increase from that colony rather than just shifting mites around.

Good point; thank you, JBM. This is my swarmiest lot which is helpful. And as you said, it's all in the tiny chance that actually I have "magic viruses" or whatever. But it does seem to be worth a go.