Idiots guide to Varroa treatment/control.

[Tomo]

Hi, I got my first healthy overwintered colony in mid April.
At the moment all appears to be well. Good increase/brood etc.
I have read lots of articles on Varroa control/monotoring and I am trying to work out a basic plan of attack. What approach works best?

 

[Skyhook]

There are many ways to skin a cat. Lots of people like cultural methods such as drone brood culling, queen trapping etc, to avoid the use of chemicals but to me, these are more intrusive and harmful to the colony than the chemicals they replace.

ITLD who should know a thing or two (and does) only uses OA. I use oxalic acid in winter and thymol at the end of summer and have had no issues: but out of the two I believe it is the OA that does the heavy lifting. Both of these are reckoned to be so basic in their actions that resistance should not arise from using them repeatedly.

.

 

[oliver90owner]

DEFRA and many others have already done it for you. Why try to re- invent the wheel?

Look it up on the web.

 

[pargyle]

DEFRA and many others have already done it for you. Why try to re- invent the wheel?

Look it up on the web.

+1 ... But I'll be kind ...

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=167

 

[Dishmop]

Hi, I got my first healthy overwintered colony in mid April.
At the moment all appears to be well. Good increase/brood etc.
I have read lots of articles on Varroa control/monotoring and I am trying to work out a basic plan of attack. What approach works best?

Oliver90owner is well known for his sharp witty and patient personality but I do love him really for his method of only do it if it needs doing, and not just because you have read that........... or that you must.........and they will die if you dont........

Q & A
I have just collected a swarm..what do I need to do?"
Standard first answer ... "spray them with chemicals.. because it will have varroa"

2; "feed them" dont they know how to forage?????????

 

[pargyle]

Oliver90owner is well known for his sharp witty and patient personality but I do love him really for his method of only do it if it needs doing, and not just because you have read that........... or that you must.........and they will die if you dont........

Q & A
I have just collected a swarm..what do I need to do?"
Standard first answer ... "spray them with chemicals.. because it will have varroa"

2; "feed them" dont they know how to forage?????????

+++++ 1 RAB rarely gives you chapter and verse about what to do ... more leads you in the direction of THINKING what you should do ...

Much more beneficial - if occasionally brain taxing !

 

[Dishmop]

+++++ 1 RAB rarely gives you chapter and verse about what to do ... more leads you in the direction of THINKING what you should do ...

Much more beneficial - if occasionally brain taxing !

More like leads you in the direction of getting you to understand that a bit of thinking would solve the problem.

but doing your own thinking sort of spoils the forum........

Look how much fun it is looking for google science papers...It must give meaning to life.

 

[itma]

+1 ... But I'll be kind ...

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=167

There's a lot on the forum, if you can find it …
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21261

 

[beeno]

Hi Tomo,
If you are a regular reader of the forum you will have noted many people having problems following the use of Maqs and I know a few more. The defra leaflet does not tell you that. Spring build up monitoring of Varroa very important as I have found out. Otherwise as itma above.

 

[Arfermo]

Google for the FERA booklet "Managing Varroa" - it's all there !!!

 

[Skyhook]

Hi, I got my first healthy overwintered colony in mid April.
At the moment all appears to be well. Good increase/brood etc.
I have read lots of articles on Varroa control/monotoring and I am trying to work out a basic plan of attack. What approach works best?

Tomo didn't ask 'how do I control varroa?' he asked what works best. With a 41-page DEFRA leaflet that gives a full review of the science but very little advice (because they are trying to be neutral), and lots of conflicting advice/information out there, it seems entirely reasonable to ask what works in practice for the beekeepers on here. A bit more advice and a bit less sneering guys?

.

 

[oliver90owner]

IPM. Repeat, IPM. Look how everyone got on with oxalic this last non-winter.

 

[Mellifera397]

I'll just say what I do then otheres can say what they do. Then we'll have an argument and Tomo can decide for himself from the points that we make.

After I have taken the supers off for extraction I put Apiguard in. I like Apiguard because it is relatively simple and easy to use. Thymol, which Apiguard is based on, I understand softens the bees cuticle however I have never heard of it killing a colony. All of the treatments are disliked by the bees but Apiguard doesn't seem too bad to me and it does the job.

In the spring, I put a foundationless B.S deep frame into the hive. The bees draw it out pretty sharpish and put drone brood in it, when the brood is sealed I cut it ou and disacard it, having a look at the pupae looking for varroa. This works well for me and varroa prefer drone brood, I think because of the extra space. The process does cost you a frame of wax though.

I'm sure someone will be along to tell you that I'm using the wrong methods. Thats the fantastic thing about beekeepers, if you ask ten of them a question you'll get ten different answers.

Good Luck with your beekeeping this season.

M

 

[REDWOOD]

Personally I don't do OA and drone removal and I don't particularly like apiguard either but I do use it, I am going to try maqs this year as other forum members have had great results (if used correctly)
Your varroa inspection boards are there for that reason.......use them

 

[Mellifera397]

Good point about inspection boards. I should have said that.



M

 

[Tomo]

Thanks for all of your answers (I knew this would be contentious) and yes, my point was that there is so much technical info regarding Varroa e.g. DEFRA advice and so many different treatments, that one can hardly see the wood for the trees. To simply say "look it up on the web" on a beginners section of a beekeeping forum is particularly unhelpful and cynical. If this was posted on the general section fair enough. Incidentally with regard to monitoring Varroa mite drop have a look at this: http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uplo...s-Of-Using-Open-mesh-Floors-by-Wally-Shaw.pdf interesting?

 

[Dishmop]

I am going to be quite out of line here and say that there probably isnt a best way.

This time last year this forum was full of reports about losses...Not one or two but dozens. Why? Nobody knew..
Some had been treated an some hadnt, which therefore doesnt prove that treatment does or doesnt work.....
Of course the replies to people who had occured losses were asked if they had treated for varroa and if they hadnt, that had to be the cause of the losses.
If owners had treated but still suffered a loss then the reason must have been the weather or starvation......
There are beeks who treat because many other beeks say that if you dont treat, then the bees will die. They dont however know why they will die.
"After I treated the varroa drop was *** ". Pointless bit of information if you dont know what the drop was before you treated.

Where do varroa eggs get laid? In drone brood cells. I have never seen any brood in my obs hive over the winter period, and no drone cells until a couple of months into egg laying season. I know that the situation in my obs hive might be different than in a full colony but having never opened one between November and a spring temperature of at least 16 deg I dont know if there is any brood anyway....but why would there be? Why would the bees take brood into winter. The eggs and grubs need feeding as do newly emerged bees. Even more food comsumed. It is acknowledged that a brood break will lower the varrao level because there is nowhere (or less) newly laid bee eggs for the varroa to lay their eggs. Therefore the same must apply during the winter period.
Last years spring arrived about 6 weeks late and there was a delay in queens starting to lay...... when I saw that the queen in my obs hives was definately laying there was then a deterioration in the weather and a place where I had marked on the glass as being where an egg had been laid, nothing happened to that egg until after the point where that egg should have been a newly emerged bee. Answer to that? Do bees control how long it takes for an egg to develope and emerge as a bee? the reason being so that they can balance population to food available.
I constantly see owners saying during the winter "there was stores and brood and I saw ( or didnt see) the queen" When asked why they were looking, they say they only had a quick peek by lifting the cover or being able to see thro the glass, but somehow they saw everything in the hive, although later in the year these same people are not sure when it is safe to do the first inspection and can never find the queen.
Basically if you treat your bees and they surive the winter you dont know if they survived because you treated them...or they died because you didnt, or that they would have died if you hadnt.

and then of course you have the super bees that have been selectively bred to create the hygenic grooming bee.....Pathetic crap.
Chemical companies who cant develop a way to control varroa.....Its not in their interest to do so.

One must also not forget the people who treat their bees without checking if there is any problem with varroa because treated bees make happy bees and happy bees make lots of honey...90 kg per hive in a couple of months.

 

[itma]

Tomo didn't ask 'how do I control varroa?' he asked what works best. With a 41-page DEFRA leaflet that gives a full review of the science but very little advice (because they are trying to be neutral), and lots of conflicting advice/information out there, it seems entirely reasonable to ask what works in practice for the beekeepers on here. A bit more advice and a bit less sneering guys?

IPM. Repeat, IPM. ...

Thanks for all of your answers (I knew this would be contentious) and yes, my point was that there is so much technical info regarding Varroa e.g. DEFRA advice and so many different treatments, that one can hardly see the wood for the trees. …

There are different treatments that can be used at their own times of the year.
"Integrated Pest Management" (employing a variety of techniques, and treating when required rather that by rote or by the calendar) is indeed the answer.

No one technique "works best" at all times.
Some are frankly a bit complicated (brood trapping for example).
Some are to be avoided if at all possible - like the pyretheroids.
Some are inappropriate at times - like Oxalic when there is any brood, or Thymol when there is a honey super on the hive.
You need to be aware that different treatments are more or less appropriate at different times of the season. And you will become aware that some folks are religiously attached to their preferred treatment method - the oxalic vaporisers will be on this thread all too quickly!


Personally, I trickle Oxalic in midwinter, cull some of the first drone brood, and will likely treat with MAQS (Formic) in midsummer (if needed), rather than the recent tradition of using a Thymol treatment (typically Apiguard) after an early removal of the honey crop.
But, if needs be, I'll do something different, or more, or less.

However, do remember that other manipulations performed for different reasons, shook swarms and artificial swarms for example, have a significant effect on varroa that can be optimised by small variations in the method.

The main thing is to always be on the lookout for a varroa problem.
The inspection board, used properly, gives a useful indication - but (thanks to ants and earwigs) it may lull you into a false sense of security. So taking a look at some drone brood occasionally and always watching out for deformed wings is simple prudence.