Hygienic behaviour and chalkbrood

[Finman]

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IT seems to be common, that bee breeders think that hygienic behavior helps in chalkbrood. (Coloss, UK University)

IT is easy to get bee strains which are immune to chalkbrood. Nothing smart in that breeding that bees carry out quickly sick larvae.

When you change an immune Queen into a sick hive, the brood area will be totally even.

Same with EFB. Get immune bee strains.

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[Fusion_power]

I find it interesting that finman is the first to advocate getting a resistant queen for chalkbrood and EFB but pooh-pooh's the idea of a varroa resistant queen.

I haven't seen an incident of chalkbrood in about 20 years. I had it regularly back in the 1970's and 1980's. All bee diseases in this area declined in the 1990's as varroa wiped out feral colonies that served as reservoirs for AFB, EFB, and others. Since then, the feral population has rebounded.

I agree with you, get a resistant queen. How do you determine a queen is resistant to chalk?

 

[Anduril]

I find it interesting that finman is the first to advocate getting a resistant queen for chalkbrood and EFB but pooh-pooh's the idea of a varroa resistant queen.

I haven't seen an incident of chalkbrood in about 20 years. I had it regularly back in the 1970's and 1980's. All bee diseases in this area declined in the 1990's as varroa wiped out feral colonies that served as reservoirs for AFB, EFB, and others. Since then, the feral population has rebounded.

I agree with you, get a resistant queen. How do you determine a queen is resistant to chalk?

Use a queen that is not susceptible to chalkbrood, simples.

 

[REDWOOD]

I find it interesting that finman is the first to advocate getting a resistant queen for chalkbrood and EFB but pooh-pooh's the idea of a varroa resistant queen.

I haven't seen an incident of chalkbrood in about 20 years. I had it regularly back in the 1970's and 1980's. All bee diseases in this area declined in the 1990's as varroa wiped out feral colonies that served as reservoirs for AFB, EFB, and others. Since then, the feral population has rebounded.

I agree with you, get a resistant queen. How do you determine a queen is resistant to chalk?

The only way is to suck it and see when you re-queen

 

[Finman]

I agree with you, get a resistant queen. How do you determine a queen is resistant to chalk?

When it doest not have chalkbrood and its drone brood capping is even, even if chalk brood dust is present.

 

[Finman]

The only way is to suck it and see when you re-queen

Only way? If you apiary does not have chalkbrood, you do not need to mind about it.
Like Jesus said: Only sick ones need healing.

 

[Fusion_power]

If your bees do not have chalkbrood, does that quid pro quo mean they are resistant? or does it mean that chalkbrood has not yet been found in your apiary. A person might claim they have chalkbrood resistant queens for sale. How do they prove they are resistant?

 

[Truble]

Some types of bees seem prone to chalkboard. Amongst my collection of strains I find the Irish Amms particularly prone. The Buckfast and Carniolans hives sat either side show no symptoms.

 

[Finman]

Tupla
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[Finman]

If your bees do not have chalkbrood, does that quid pro quo mean they are resistant? or does it mean that chalkbrood has not yet been found in your apiary. A person might claim they have chalkbrood resistant queens for sale. How do they prove they are resistant?

Very simple. You buy such queen, and put into chalk contaminated hive. You see it yourself.

Beekeeping industry is not among most honest area. All those lovely blaa plaa, what I can see every day in advertising.

 

[Fusion_power]

The only way I can see to breed for bees that are chalk resistant would be to do a challenge test. I read several years ago that someone ground up a bunch of chalk mummies, then made a spray and sprayed a bunch of colonies to see which were resistant and which susceptible. If I were trying to breed chalk resistant bees, this is the first step I would take. I have reason to believe that chalk resistance is widely available, especially in bees derived from Italian and Carniolan stock.

So finman, now that you are on record recommending chalk resistant queens, are there any other bee pest/disease problems that you believe could be helped with breeding?

 

[Finman]

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I have bred chalkbrood from my yard and I do not need any advice any more
I got a hint from MAAREC disease booklet.
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You use much words 'try' and 'believe'. I do not need. I have relieved the problem, and I have told , how it goes. I have explainet it before in this forum.

My beekeeping economy suffers if I speak rubbish.

But this same has happened to many bee breeders. When varroa arrived, it brought with it chalk brood to terrible level. But now, after 25-30 years, bee breeders say that problem is solved. They have selected queens which stand the disease.

In old disease advices it was said about chalkbrood : It does not kill.

But after couple of years text was: Makes severe losses in honey yields.

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[Fusion_power]

I do not need any advice any more

I still need advice from time to time. I don't often understand the motives of people or the reasons for their actions. For example, chalkbrood is easy to breed resistance into honeybees. Why then do most commercial strains of bees still throw a percentage susceptible to chalk? EFB is relatively easy to select bees that are resistant. Why then do beekeepers not insist on bees that have been selected for EFB resistance? Trachea mites are a different paradigm. Susceptible colonies are wiped out taking them out of the breeding population. The result is that bees that have been exposed to acarine are all resistant.

Winter is near finman, have you started preparing your bees?

 

[Finman]

Winter is near finman, have you started preparing your bees?

I am just taking off the yield and moving hives to home. I move hives to cottge yard and I start next day the feeding.
Weather helps. We have this week 20C day temps.

The yield was miserable. When I look the worst year during last 40 years, this year is half from that. Too much rain during rape blooming in July. Rape season was badly minus. When hives should bring 40-60 kg, they consumed 30 kg existing yield stores.

 

[Fusion_power]

One of those paradigms that comes from having a highly prolific queen is that she produces a lot of bees. If there is little or no nectar available, she keeps on producing bees that consume whatever honey the colony has stored. Eventually they starve... unless the beekeeper takes action to prevent death.

This area has to deal with a mid-summer dearth most years from roughly July 1st to the end of August. If the bees don't have enough stores, they can starve and die. Bees adapted to this climate tend to slow down or stop brood rearing during the dearth. When fall flows start, they pick up brood rearing and produce bees for winter. In the same conditions where your bees consumed 30 kg, mine would have consumed maybe 5 kg. That doesn't make your bees good or my bees bad or vice versa. It just means things are different in drastically different climates.

 

[Finman]

One of those paradigms that comes from having a highly prolific queen is that she produces a lot of bees. If there is little or no nectar available, she keeps on producing bees that consume whatever honey the colony has stored. Eventually they starve... unless the beekeeper takes action to prevent death.

This area has to deal with a mid-summer dearth most years from roughly July 1st to the end of August. If the bees don't have enough stores, they can starve and die. Bees adapted to this climate tend to slow down or stop brood rearing during the dearth. When fall flows start, they pick up brood rearing and produce bees for winter. In the same conditions where your bees consumed 30 kg, mine would have consumed maybe 5 kg. That doesn't make your bees good or my bees bad or vice versa. It just means things are different in drastically different climates.

That calculation makes no sense when I look my average yields during last 30 years.
That is period if varroa.

My bees are good. That is sure. I have selected them with long experience.
And then I select pastures and move bees onto best areas what I find..

My average yields were 40 kg 50 years go when I started with 18 colonies. They were all united swarms.

And nothing to do with climates.

Like one guy in Salt Lake City wrote, he was only beekeeper in the town . All flowers were artificially watered

If you do not have pastures, why you try to keep bees. Swizerland has 5 kg average yield. My bees catch it in one day. They keep their hives tens in one spot.

I bought my summer cottage from area, which has lots of wild nature and only few beekeepers. And I sell my yield on Capitan City.

 

[Finman]

It just means things are different in drastically different climates.

And different beekeeping.

Alaska has about same climate as ours, and no insulated hives.

An experinced beekeeper in Alaska gives advices that 3 langstroth boxes and 50 kg sugar for Winter.

Our professionals keep one box hives over winter and use 20 kg sugar.

And the queens must be specially selected. Nothing Hawaij queens.

 

[Finman]

In the same conditions where your bees consumed 30 kg, mine would have consumed maybe 5 kg. .

I bet that you do not have weighed your hives in summer consumption.

In our balance network we can see, that in May , when colony fills only one langstroth and box is full if brood, weekly consumption is 4 kg/week.
IT cannot be 5 kg/month.

Be careful with experienced beekeepers when you draw from your sleeve those figures.
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[madasafish]

One of those paradigms that comes from having a highly prolific queen is that she produces a lot of bees. If there is little or no nectar available, she keeps on producing bees that consume whatever honey the colony has stored. Eventually they starve... unless the beekeeper takes action to prevent death.

This area has to deal with a mid-summer dearth most years from roughly July 1st to the end of August. If the bees don't have enough stores, they can starve and die. Bees adapted to this climate tend to slow down or stop brood rearing during the dearth. When fall flows start, they pick up brood rearing and produce bees for winter. In the same conditions where your bees consumed 30 kg, mine would have consumed maybe 5 kg. That doesn't make your bees good or my bees bad or vice versa. It just means things are different in drastically different climates.

My bees are different: no nectar = queens stop laying..

You have the wrong type of bees.

 

[Finman]

My bees are different: no nectar = queens stop laying..

You have the wrong type of bees.

They really are... Odd