How to understand, Dead bees under entrance?

[Biodlaren]

Hi!
In middle of July I tried to raise some queens. To do that I have to choose a good hive and make it queenless, and preferably even free from young brood. I hate to try to find the queen, often I can not find her and the bees getting more and more irritated. The easiest way to make the hive queenless is to simply lift away the brood-nest. So I did. I lifted away the two boxes of brood-nest and placed it in another spot in my apiary with the entrance facing the other way. Left on the original spot was only the supers with a new box underneath where I placed my queen-frames with newly re-grafted young larva. This method I have used before and it use to work out just fine.
The next day it is time to put the brood-nest back on the original spot, and place the queen-frames with now hopefully new build queen cells above the queen-excluder, and of course, the supers on top. When I now should lift back the brood-nest from it's temporary spot I could see loads of dead bees outside the entrance. On the entrance, on the ground underneath and even on the temporary bottom board. I estimated it to 3 liters of dead bees!
What had happened here? First thing I thought of was if they have no air supply, but they had a 300mm wide enthance so that should not have been an issue. The other ting I could come up with was if some other strong colony have began robbing. But the brood-nest don't have as much honey, and the guard bees (is this correct term?) are still left in the brood-nest to protect the now smaller hive.
I have a hard time to understan what happened. This method use to work out just fine. The only drawback use to be that it doesn't make as many queens as other methods. No dead bees.

 

[Speybee]

Hi!
In middle of July I tried to raise some queens. To do that I have to choose a good hive and make it queenless, and preferably even free from young brood. I hate to try to find the queen, often I can not find her and the bees getting more and more irritated. The easiest way to make the hive queenless is to simply lift away the brood-nest. So I did. I lifted away the two boxes of brood-nest and placed it in another spot in my apiary with the entrance facing the other way. Left on the original spot was only the supers with a new box underneath where I placed my queen-frames with newly re-grafted young larva. This method I have used before and it use to work out just fine.
The next day it is time to put the brood-nest back on the original spot, and place the queen-frames with now hopefully new build queen cells above the queen-excluder, and of course, the supers on top. When I now should lift back the brood-nest from it's temporary spot I could see loads of dead bees outside the entrance. On the entrance, on the ground underneath and even on the temporary bottom board. I estimated it to 3 liters of dead bees!
What had happened here? First thing I thought of was if they have no air supply, but they had a 300mm wide enthance so that should not have been an issue. The other ting I could come up with was if some other strong colony have began robbing. But the brood-nest don't have as much honey, and the guard bees (is this correct term?) are still left in the brood-nest to protect the now smaller hive.
I have a hard time to understan what happened. This method use to work out just fine. The only drawback use to be that it doesn't make as many queens as other methods. No dead bees.

My bee experience does not yet extend to grafting cells etc.
But have you considered heat stress? Up here where it’s usually rather cool ( in more ways than one) mid July this year we had very clammy hot weather over a prolonged period, perhaps this was a factor?

 

[drex]

You have effectively split your hive for a day. Having moved brood boxes they will have been depleted of flying bees, which would have returned to the supers, weakening these boxes and making them an easy target for robbers.
Also for queen rearing you need a hive brimming over with bees, which again you will not have achieved.
Might be better to learn to find the queen, there are methods of splitting or sieving which can help.

 

[Biodlaren]

But have you considered heat stress?

Yes, I'm pretty sure heat was no issue. The whole Swedish summer was not as warm as I would like to.

 

[Biodlaren]

You have effectively split your hive for a day. Having moved brood boxes they will have been depleted of flying bees, which would have returned to the supers, weakening these boxes and making them an easy target for robbers.

Yes, that could be a possible explanation.

Also for queen rearing you need a hive brimming over with bees, which again you will not have achieved.

Yes, I know, this is no perfect method. But it is an easy method. A method that disturbe the hive as little as possible (at least it usually does). You don't get so many queens, but then I can do it again the other day in another hive.

Might be better to learn to find the queen.....

I'm getting quite provoked by this advice. with 35 hives and 14 years of experience I still have very hard time to find the queen, specially an unmarked queen in a large nest. This spring didn't find an marked queen in a 5 frame nuc! I spent half an hour searching for her two Saturdays in a row but didn't find her. The third saturday I tried again, and there she walked with a sneer on her face.

....there are methods of splitting or sieving which can help.

Thank you for mensioning. I believe I have given up to be able to find the queen by a normal inspection. I have to use one or another special methods to accomplish that.

Thanks por your response Drex!

 

[Rockingod]

Hi Biodlaren,
Mmmmm.....You say there were dead bees on the floor inside the box as well. Yes?
I had a similar issue with a colony only a week or so ago. A large amount of dead bees both inside and outside of the hive. The colony strength was depleted by over 90%. This colony was originally strong (bees on 8 frames) but when serious robbing starts in earnest it goes on unabated until the robbers totally overcome the colony's defenders. A colossal amount of fighting between the attacking bees and the defenders will ensue. This will often happen when there is a nectar dearth.
I would say that this was caused by robber bees and nothing to do with heat stress. IMHO. (However, I will always stand corrected if others know better).
As an aside, if you are trying to rear queens successfully on a regular basis, it is absolutely essential that you are able to find the queen and know exactly where she is and, more importantly, where you want her to be during the process.
For raising our queens we use the Cloake board system which was invented by Harry Cloake (We've modified this procedure to produce more/better queens but the basic procedure is still very much the same). You will also need to be able to graft the grubs into suitable queen rearing cups.
Here is a link which explains the basic procedure. Cloake board procedure.
If you are unable to spend time searching for your queen or if you are unable to graft the grubs then I suggest you give it up as a bad job and buy in your queens.
At the end of the day it's the welfare of your bees that are of the prime importance.

 

[BugsInABox]

This method I have used before and it use to work out just fine.

If you are unable to spend time searching for your queen or if you are unable to graft the grubs then I suggest you give it up as a bad job and buy in your queens.

Hi Rockingod, I’m interested in you’re technique. I’m Looking for an easy way to raise just a few queens a year without grafting. How does it work for you normally.
Bugs

 

[Rockingod]

Hi Bugs,
Sorry my man but we only use grafting and II methods to raise our queens. I know there are systems to produce queens without grafting but they are all very hit and miss at the best of times. I've experimented with some in the past but they were just not worth the effort. Also, you will end up like biodlaren (above) and accidentally, weaken a colony to the point where they become easy prey to robbers.
There's the easy way and the hard way. Unfortunately, there's no easy way if you get my drift.

 

[BugsInABox]

Biodlaren - is that your experience?

 

[Biodlaren]

Grafting is not hard, it just looks. Try it. Be sure to have good light, and if you are in posession of a pair of reading glasses, bring them.